From - Sun Aug 2 03:08:47 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:44:54 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Jul 31 19:38:56 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980731-1735-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id TAA24551 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:38:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03209 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:38:53 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23999 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:35:50 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23995 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:35:49 -0500 Received: from mail.sz-online.de ([194.25.113.124]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02869 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:35:48 -0500 Received: by mail.sz-online.de from localhost (router,SLMail V3.0); Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:38:59 +0200 Received: by mail.sz-online.de from dirk.schoenberger [195.145.254.28] (SLmail 3.0.2423); Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:38:58 0200 From: "Dirk Schoenberger" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re: gnucash and Qt again Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:31:54 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980731203859.1ad78c0627c411d2923400a0c944b898.in@mail.sz-online.de> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 125cb3f53b0a0000 I unsuccessfully tried to send my Qt patches to linas@linas.org. All I got was the following error (once after 1 day, the second after 5 days): 451 ... linas.org: Name server timeout Message could not be delivered for 5 days Message will be deleted from queue Would it be ok if I send the files to gnucash-devel? (3 archives, sum 14 k) Dirk ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Tue Jul 7 20:30:44 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/cgm-980707-1326-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id PAA00590 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:03:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19647 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:03:11 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14627 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:00:25 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14622 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:00:25 -0500 Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18998 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:00:19 -0500 Received: from jeremyco (ftw-tsa5-31.cyberramp.net [207.158.119.31]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/cgm-980707-1326-POPAUTH) with SMTP id PAA29119 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199807072000.PAA29119@mailhost.cyberramp.net> X-Sender: linux@mailhost.cyberramp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:21:06 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org From: Jeremy Collins Subject: I don't get it... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 1223769622e5992f1f85ce85f7d9d6ca Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 Ok... this doesn't make sense to me... maybe someone can explain what I am doing wrong. I have two directories of source code. ./xacc and ./xacc-current ./xacc is the latest cvs source tree, and ./xacc-current is the changes I have made to it. In src/gnome I have two new files. So... I use this command from the directory above these two dirs... diff -crP ./xacc ./xacc-current > gnucash-patch But... it just takes all the source code from ./xacc and spits it into the gnucash-patch file? What gives? I also tried the following variations on this command: diff -crN ./xacc ./xacc-current > gnucash-patch diff -crP ./xacc-current ./xacc > gnucash-patch diff -crN ./xacc-current ./xacc > gnucash-patch diff -cr ./xacc ./xacc-current > gnucash-patch <- this works but doesn't include the two new files... Ok, so I am doing something wrong.. but what? -- Jeremy Collins jcollins@gnucash.org ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Jul 10 13:22:47 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980709-2107-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id HAA18371 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:58:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28679 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:58:18 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA25817 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:57:11 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25812 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:57:10 -0500 Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28565 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:57:12 -0500 Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (screen2r.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.1]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28211 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guitar.LanCity.COM (guitar.lancity.com [192.190.3.4]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14719 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 05:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baritone.docd-east (baritone [192.190.3.44]) by guitar.LanCity.COM (8.8.6/BNET-97/07/07-I) with SMTP id IAA06007; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:57:08 -0400 (EDT) for Posted-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from baritone by baritone.docd-east (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA09294; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:56:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199807101256.IAA09294@baritone.docd-east> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Xacc and "Split" transactions? Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:56:08 -0400 From: "Paul L. Lussier" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: c624ef551c801c5b3808911c83471325 Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 Hi all, I've been playing around with xacc a little bit and I'm trying to figure out how to accomplish the same level of ease and functionality I have in quicken. I'm currently on Quicken 4 and I am admittedly not doing a whole lot with it other than keeping track of where my money goes; i.e. I'm not generating a lot of different reports, or looking at graphs, etc. just categorizing my spending habits. According to the docs with xacc, a quicken category is equivalent to an account in xacc. I can't figure out how to create "split" transactions, though. In quicken, I would have 2 accounts, checking and savings. Then income/expense *categories*. I could create an entry in the ledger, and then split the total amount of money among many categories. With xacc, I got the impression that I need to create a separate entry for *each* account. This got *very* tedious very quickly. Using my normal paycheck as an example, I "took" in the "base" salary in to the Income->Salary account, then had to create separate entries in each of the following: Expense->Taxes->Federal Income Social Sec (FICA) State Income ->Insurace->Life ->Medical ->Dental Asset ->Investment->401(k) Employee Stock Purchase Checking Granted, this scheme does a really good job of showing you how things are being distributed, and is *very* good if you want a quick YTD idea of what's going on with your money. But it's *incredibly* tedious to enter all this data with all the pointing and clicking to open and close windows. Is there an easier way to do what I'm trying to do? Are there also "re-occuring" transactions that I just didn't find anywhere? TIA, -- Seeya, Paul ---- plussier@baynetworks.com Broadband Technology Division - Bay Networks (now a Nortel Company, Aye! :) If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:04:58 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:04 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Jul 25 19:37:49 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id TAA15718 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:37:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12098 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:37:46 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA18215 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:36:48 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18210 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:36:47 -0500 Received: from panic.can.seawood.org (dt053n1e.san.rr.com [204.210.34.30]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11891 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:36:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (cls@localhost) by panic.can.seawood.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA04852 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:36:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: panic.can.seawood.org: cls owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:36:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Seawood X-Sender: cls@panic.can.seawood.org To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again In-Reply-To: <874sw5sepm.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9c17d62a3e0e0000 On 25 Jul 1998, Rob Browning wrote: > This not only applies to KDE, but also to any app that is GPLed *and* > requires Qt. Note that GnuCash *is* GPL. Therefore, *no one* will > legally be able to make a binary of gnucash-qt and put it on their ftp > site. Period. Of course, this is no different than binary distributions of xacc which uses Motif because Motif == Qt under Linux and a number of other free unix distributions as far as the GPL is concerned. Of course, I'm guessing it was put there by an author and, conveniently, authors are not subject to the licenses they place on their software. But don't let anyone else try it. > I agree with the idea that you should keep the GUI as independent of > the rest of the app as possible, but in practice, unless you're going > to go to *great* lengths, this is essentially impractical to to > completely. What do you consider *great* lenghts? Netscape seems to have managed to do a fairly decent job of keeping the core functionality separated from the non-GUI sections without going to what I would consider *great* lengths. I'm not saying the dnd interaction and drop-down menus have to be exactly the same between different FEs but it'd be nice if one could write a separate FE for fltk w/o worrying that the code to calculate (not display) a 1040EZ form is completely intertwined with the default FE. - cls ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:03 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:09 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Jul 25 20:01:43 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id UAA22187 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:01:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18683 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:01:41 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19775 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:01:00 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19770 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:00:59 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18559 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:00:59 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08544 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:00:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0FB5-0002jj-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:00:43 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: From: Rob Browning Date: 25 Jul 1998 20:00:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: Christopher Seawood's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:36:46 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <87yathqvd0.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 38 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5b4aa14ff6100000 Christopher Seawood writes: > Of course, this is no different than binary distributions of xacc which > uses Motif because Motif == Qt under Linux and a number of other free unix > distributions as far as the GPL is concerned. Of course, I'm guessing it > was put there by an author and, conveniently, authors are not subject to > the licenses they place on their software. But don't let anyone else try > it. Right, which is why Debian, for one, will probably be removing all the binary packages which are under the GPL and compiled against Motif soon. We haven't decided exactly what steps we're going to take, but the GPL makes it clear that you may only link against "standard system components". For linux, Motif probably doesn't qualify. For Solaris, it would. > What do you consider *great* lenghts? Netscape seems to have > managed to do a fairly decent job of keeping the core functionality > separated from the non-GUI sections without going to what I would > consider *great* lengths. I'm not saying the dnd interaction and > drop-down menus have to be exactly the same between different FEs > but it'd be nice if one could write a separate FE for fltk w/o > worrying that the code to calculate (not display) a 1040EZ form is > completely intertwined with the default FE. I'm not debating that it's a nice feature if you can manage it without too many compromises. It's a laudable goal, and I think we should work in that direction when possible. The reason I raised the issue at all is that I've had a couple of experiences where more time was spent trying to implement a "generic" API than it probably would have taken to just use the native interface, and re-write those bits for an alternate interface when it was deemed necessary. Finding the right balance (or drawing the API lines in the right places) is the trick... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:06 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Jul 25 20:05:18 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id UAA23237 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:05:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20102 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:05:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19993 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:48 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19989 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:47 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19420 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:47 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08569 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0FEk-0002jl-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:30 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Xacc and "Split" transactions? References: <199807252315.SAA10715@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 25 Jul 1998 20:04:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:15:39 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87vholqv6p.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bc32e908ae0c0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Now, there are 50-100 people on this mailing list, so I don't understand why > none of them stepped up to the plate to field this one ... Fell through the cracks. Sorry. > I beleive the short answer is "splits are not supported in the 1.0.x series, > They have been added in the 1.1.x series, but that code is still under > development and currently not stable." Right, and there's currently no way to enter splits, even though the engine supports them. That's in the works. > But the "description" field does have a quick-fill feature, so that > if you start typing the first few letters of something you've typed > before, it will fill in the rest based on that. It was more or less > working last time I looked. It works in the current Gtk register at least... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:07 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:13 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Jul 25 20:07:54 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id UAA23912 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20438 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:44 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA20252 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:15 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20248 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:14 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20346 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:14 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08573 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0FH9-0002jo-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:06:59 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Managing Your Money --> QIF --> Xacc References: <199807260025.TAA11126@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 25 Jul 1998 20:06:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:25:44 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87sojpqv2k.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d066dda6840b0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Hobbies:Scuba (an expense account, showing how much money was spent) > Assets:Scuba (an asset account, listing what I own in scuba gear) > > Both of these would show up in the pull-down menu as just plain "scuba". > Should I just bit the bullet, and make this pull-down very wide, or is > there a better way to do things? Unless you're going to go to a heirarchical menu (which would probably be the preferred solution), then I think you should make the pull-down wide. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:14 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:20 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Jul 25 21:09:36 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id VAA10434 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:09:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01523 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:09:34 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23089 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:08:42 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23085 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:08:42 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01487 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:08:41 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08694 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0GEa-0002kj-00; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:08:24 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807260102.UAA11294@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 25 Jul 1998 21:08:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:02:10 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87pvetqs88.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 175 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2aa12659ff240000 OK, I figured I owed everyone a better elaboration of the issue, so I went ahead and dug up the relevant stuff from debian-devel. You can see what you think. There are actually a couple of issues with KDE. First of all, KDE being under the GPL alone apparently means that it's not legal for anyone to distribute their binaries. This wouldn't be true if they'd used the LGPL instead. They can fix this by changing their license to allow the binaries linked against Qt (as a derived work) which I believe they're going to do. Unfortunately, this won't be enough. They've incorporated a lot of code, both internally, and in the KDE-ified unix apps that's not theirs to re-license. It belongs to other authors (like ghostview) who released the stuff under the GPL. Unless they get permission from each of these authors to use their code in a non GPLed app, *they* can't even distribute their own stuff. And from looking at a list of some of the authors, I think this is going to be unlikely, Here are 7 relevant messages that'll probably make more sense than I have, and cover the relevant issues. All of these come from debian-devel. You can look up the broader discussion on www.debian.org if you're inclined: ** Manoj Srivastava: I fail to see how it is relevant. Where do you see a meaningless license? The KDE people have given the right to distribute the code under the terms of the GPL. If you can't satisfy the GPL, no rights are given. What is meaningless about it? Seems pretty straghtforward. Of course, the GPL requires that everything needed to build the KDE code, including interface definitions, be also distributed under the GPL. (Still pretty meaningful). We, however, do not have the right to distribute the interface definitions which are part of Qt under the GPL, so we can't distribute KDE binaries (this, gains, succeeds in being meaningfull). As to libraries, the intent is that the program be usefull, and that means that anything required to make the program work on the system should be freely available. Whether that means static linking, dynamic linking, telepathy, hyperlinking, is incidental; the GPL is trying to ensure the program shall work on a users box, that the program sources are not held for ransom (ok, so I stretched the last bit), that the source is available so it can be fixed, and the fixes distributed back to the community. The English (british?) court should look at that when deterining the intents of the licensor (why else whould they have used the GPL?) ** Ian Jackson (current Debian project leader): We have essentially the following options, I think: 1. Get cast-iron permission from _every_ developer who has contributed towards any purportedly-GPL'd KDE code, to allow their code to be distributed together with Qt notwithstanding the GPL. 2. Remove KDE from contrib. 3. Remove Qt, completely, or perhaps to a separate non-auto-installable archive. 4. Consult a lawyer in the hope that they'll assure us we're OK. People who want us to take this option should first find a lawyer willing to help us pro bono. I would oppose any attempt to spend money sorting out KDE's mess. ** Lost the attribution, but I can find it if you care: Header files from qt source are neccessary to compile KDE. The GPL includes interface files in its definition of the source. So there is the possibility that we have to guarantee that the qt header files can be modified and redistributed. ** Francesco Tapparo: kde people are too casual about the license stuff: I do'nt trust them anymore about that. I'm doing a deepened research in the sources of the kde packages, and I'm finding a lot of problems. There are even files GPL copyrighted by the Free Software Foundantion!!!!(see kdecore/libintl.cpp in the kdelibs package) (I've already contacted rms about this problem). This is a very very very serious question, because rms has been always very clear about the linking with proprietary software ... I found a lot of GPL software from non-kde people; kdvi of kpathsea (GPL), krn is linked to libgdbm (GPL), kghostview use code from ghostview (GPL), kmidi use code of timidity, kscdmagic is based on synaesthesia v1.3. ** Steve Dunham: We can't distribute KDE without Timothy O. Theisen's permission. He wrote most ghostview, which is (c)1992 by him. The KDE project took his GPL'd program an changed it to only work with Qt. How many other programs did they do this with? How many others could sue KDE for breaking their licence? ** Jason Gunthorpe: Please re-read Ian's post. Let me try to give an example.. I wrote 'foo' and placed it under the GPL. Bob, a KDE person thought that 'foo' was cool so he wrote a KDE front end and placed that under the GPL Now kfoo with my integrated code is perfectly fine, it is all gpl'd. But when you distributed kfoo and QT together (ie in contrib or on a CD) you have created a Derived Work that must -ALL- fall under the GPL. Since QT does not we are in violation by distributing them together. For purely KDE programs we know that KDE gives explicit permission to link with QT. But in the case of kfoo -I- never gave permission and I could very easialy complain to debian that Debian does NOT have permission to distribute it with QT. This is the main problem with the QT license that everyone likes to debate: Free/QT requires that programs/libraries linked to it be GPL'd. The GPL requires that programs/libraries linked to it be GPL'd. Free/QT is not GPL'd For some very nice prose about this see all of RMS's comments on the netscape license and why it is bad because it doesn't allow linking with GPL'd code. ** Raul Miller: I decided that someone needed to read all the licenses in contrib, to see what's allowed and what's not. I have a number of unanswered questions about licenses, but when I started paying real attention to KDE's copyright files I was startled. I was wrong about the problem with KDE: the problem is much worse than what I had originally assumed. I'm going by what it says in the copyright file, plus what I know. I don't think we can distribute kde with Gordon Matzigkeit's permission. Also, the copyright file says outright (this taken from kdebase): The kde WWW Page has a statement, that all files are licenced under gpl. But this package has not copyright notes or licences in all files, or in global location, so the situation is unclear. And, in examining the copyright files I find a number of contradictions to the statement on the web page: I've found at least a dozen other kinds of copyrights besides the GPL. That, combined with the above statement from kde's copyright file makes me suspect that a lot of software is being distributed here without the permission of its authors. Honestly, I don't see how we can justify distributing this stuff. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:31 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:38 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 02:47:00 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id CAA02542 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:46:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09297 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:46:54 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05070 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:46:01 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05063 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:46:00 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09195 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:46:00 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09598 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:45:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0LV4-0002oF-00; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:45:46 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807252302.SAA10655@shadygrove.linas.org> <877m11sf8o.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Jul 1998 02:45:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: "James H. Cloos Jr."'s message of "26 Jul 1998 02:08:30 -0500" Message-ID: <87g1fpqcly.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 12e6ef946d0b0000 "James H. Cloos Jr." writes: > FWIW, harmony is in the CVS tree at cvs.kde.org.... That's fine, but the question is whether or not the KDE people would actually use it if it became mature enough. The answer I had heard was "no", and it was a pretty strenuous no. But of course, that's hearsay, and it could also just be one developer who doesn't actually represent the opinions of the other developers. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:33 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:39 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 03:05:30 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id DAA04879 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:05:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12956 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:05:28 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA05649 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:52 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA05645 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:51 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12424 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:51 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA09631 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0LnI-0002oM-00; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:04:36 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807260404.XAA12511@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Jul 1998 03:04:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:04:14 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87d8atqbqj.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 57 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d2f5859328140000 linas@linas.org writes: > None of them by lawyers. Its all political BS by developers. > I've seen this before; whatever the merits of the kde vs. gpl > debate, all it shows is that the debian developers are naive > and childish at best, and stuck up assholes at worst. I'm don't think that's fair. We have around 300 developers. You're painting with a pretty broad brush. Besides, few, if any of the developers had any strong issue with these programs (KDE, etc.) being in contrib or non-free until it looked like there might be real licensing problems. If it turns out that there aren't, then the stuff will just stay on the ftp site. It will have to be in non-free or contrib (not main), but that's because it doesn't satisfy the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which is what Debian is all about. I don't think it's really an emotional issue for many. It's certainly not for me. I don't want to work with/on KDE, and I'm not going to go out of my way to support it, but I have nothing against it being around. I don't really care which way this turns out. Frankly, I wish it wasn't an issue. I've already spent much more time just reading the related threads than I ever wanted to. I do, however, care whether or not we're doing the "right thing". > Bullshit. If this was true, stallman has been violating the gpl for > decades. I haven't followed the gnu lists much, but from what I've heard, RMS has been pretty careful and quite thorough in both explaining and defending how the GPL applies in situations like this. I think you're selling him short. Here's the relevant qualification from the GPL. All this hinges on whether or not you think Qt qualifies as "anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs". I don't know of any OS for which that would be true. That said, I'm *not* any kind of legal expert, so I have no business defending this either way. The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:37 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:43 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 03:35:51 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id DAA08782 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:35:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA18749 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:35:50 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06582 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:35:09 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06578 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:35:09 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA18696 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:35:08 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA09770 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:34:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0MGb-0002oX-00; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:34:53 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807260326.WAA12370@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Jul 1998 03:34:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 25 Jul 1998 22:26:34 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87af5xqac2.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 67 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 49ab68b3e6140000 linas@linas.org writes: > I guess I don't understand how Motif doesn't qualify. Does the bit I quoted from the GPL help? I'm not sure it's a completely crisp distinction, but I think you can certainly say things like "Motif is not standard OS software on a Mac" and "Motif is standard OS software on Solaris". > And there are both free and commercial versions, with lesstif as the > premier free version, and RedHat motif being one of 5 or 6 > commercial versions for Linux. Hmm. If Motif comes standard on RedHat, I don't know how that affects the argument. Here I'd have to let other's who know the issue better debate it. Regardless, if the app compiles with LessTif, then the GPL is satisfied. You *can* provide the source for LessTif, so you'd be covered (I think). > Why is debian biased against lesstif? Debian has no problems with lesstif, and Lesstif compiled versions of apps go into the main distribution as a matter of course. Debian just can't put Motif compiled apps in "main". > Is it because there are commercial versions of the same thing? Why > isn't debian biased against XF86? There are, after all, commercial > X servers out there that are better. And by the same set of > arguments, X11 is not a "standard system compnent" of unix. It sounds like you have a misconception. Debian's not biased against anything *because* it has a proprietary counterpart. It's biased against things that *only* have a proprietary implementation. > Is debian taking these actions under the advice of a lawyer? Has > debian even consulted a lawyer? Have they received cease and decist > orders from troll-tech, or OSF, or FSF? Is FSF thinking of sueing > debian? I doubt it. Debian's trying to make the "right" choices regardless of the legal (in)actions of the (potentially) injured parties. > Until counsel is taken, its 100% political bullshit: the debian > developers don't want motif and qt, and are too chicken-shit to say so, > and try to hide behind a smoke-screen. If counsel has been taken, I'd > like to see the written opinion. I don't think anyone's trying to hide behind anyting. Debian's really clear about what software it will and won't accept into main. See the Social Contract, and the DSFG. I think perhaps, by quoting those people out of context, I've caused some of these problems. The quotes probably make things appear much more one-sided than the actual debate has been, but I was trying to convey the position that had caused the concern; I wasn't trying to convey the flavor of the argument... > I've read the licenses. I'm not naive. You can't threaten me with > that quasi-legal BS. John pretty much covered this one. You seem awfully defensive. I think most of the people I've seen discussing this, though they may disagree, actually want to figure out the truth rather than leverage an agenda. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:49 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:55 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 14:17:09 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id OAA23985 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:17:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30557 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:17:08 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA30962 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:16:36 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30958 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:16:35 -0500 Received: from ptialaska.net (husky.ptialaska.net [198.70.245.245]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30501 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:16:34 -0500 Received: from vonnegut (dialups-97.sitka.ptialaska.net [198.70.227.97]) by ptialaska.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA22914 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:15:47 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:16:02 +0000 (Local time zone must be set--see zic manual page) From: Tony X-Sender: tonyt@vonnegut To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again In-Reply-To: <199807261757.KAA06906@andare.fugue.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a54cd4a2bf0c0000 Personally, I think all of this GPL vs. Qt stuff is insane. Perhaps using Qt as the sole interface is not The Right Thing, but it is a right thing. The world is certainly more complex than most people believe; and this issue is more complex than most people believe. Adding an alternate interface to the standard GTK+ interface is harmless. At most, it takes a little development time from someone interested in writing that interface, and a few moments to add and test the patches. This war of invincibly ignorant opinions (from both sides) is getting tedious. I've heard the arguments-- I'm not convinced. Either way. One of the joys of programming for the open-source community has been the open-minded sharing of ideas. This GPL vs Qt debate has managed to taint my idealism. I'm forced to admit that even open-source contributers can be closed-minded and territorial as the worst proprietary software vendor. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (Now I'm going to shut up and start writing some code.) - Tony ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:45 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 13:42:33 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id NAA13475 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:42:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21417 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:42:32 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29147 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:40:26 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29143 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:40:25 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21227 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:40:26 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10758 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:40:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0ViJ-00065B-00; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:40:07 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807261740.MAA16804@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Jul 1998 13:40:07 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:40:45 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <873eboqwvs.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 40 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 800ecaff95100000 linas@linas.org writes: > The implied threat is that if I include Qt in my source, debian will > black-list it. Of course, I could point out that a gtk-only build > is possible And this would be sufficient. There's no "black-listing". Debian just wouldn't be able to put a Qt only app into main, not because Debian's trying to be nasty, but because these items don't allow Debian to fulfill the promises it has made. Debian makes a number of guarantees about what's in main. Specifically, Debian mandates that you will have the source code for *every* last bit of your OS and all the installed software. Any package where that's not the case, can't go in main. A Qt only package would still be able to go into non-free or contrib, and it would still be supported just like any other package for as long as there was a willing maintainer. Debian includes a *bunch* of software like this in non-free and contrib. > but who knows what the archive maintainer will decide? Once the > source is tainted, its tainted. I think you've misunderstood the argument. Debian, at its core, wants to make sure that *anything* that's in "main" is "free" software. Meaning, among other things, that the source code is completely free, and that it's completely safe for anyone else to do any number of things with this body of software, including rewriting as much of it as they want and then selling it all as a value-added OS without infringing on *anyone's* licenses. Debian is *not* strictly focused on the GPL. There are a number of licenses that satisfy the DFSG, for example the Artistic and BSD licenses. The only issue here was that people were trying to determine if particular packages were violating their *own* licenses, or putting someone else in the position of doing the same. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:56 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:03 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 15:25:20 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id PAA14115 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14155 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:18 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01352 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01348 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:02 -0500 Received: from bucky.win.bright.net (bucky.win.bright.net [208.140.2.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13234 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:22:46 -0500 Received: from dhh.gt.org (elk4-cs-5.win.bright.net [208.149.150.57]) by bucky.win.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with ESMTP id PAA24125 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:22:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dhh.gt.org id m0z0WSP-0008RPC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:27:45 -0500 (CDT) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807261848.OAA03231@jekyll.piermont.com> From: john@dhh.gt.org Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:27:44 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Perry E. Metzger"'s message of Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: <87k9508lan.fsf@hasler.dhh> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5f9c37e210a0000 Perry E. Metzger writes: > If someone wants to write and support a Qt version of the app, I don't > want to stop them, but why is anyone so religious about it that they > can't just deal with Gtk? I know of no one who is. -- John Hasler john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:56 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:02 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 15:25:17 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id PAA14091 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14145 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:14 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01359 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:23 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01355 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:22 -0500 Received: from bucky.win.bright.net (bucky.win.bright.net [208.140.2.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13264 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:23:21 -0500 Received: from dhh.gt.org (elk4-cs-5.win.bright.net [208.149.150.57]) by bucky.win.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with ESMTP id PAA24153 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dhh.gt.org id m0z0WZy-0008RhC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:35:34 -0500 (CDT) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807261757.KAA06906@andare.fugue.com> From: john@dhh.gt.org Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:35:34 -0500 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:57:14 -0700 Message-ID: <87iukk8kxl.fsf@hasler.dhh> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 03038aea680b0000 Ted Lemon writes: > Debian can choose how to link GNUcash in their binary distribution - what > do they care? We don't. > If the Debian people don't like that, they can go off and write their own > replacement for GNUcash. Debian includes in its main distribution many programs that can be compiled either with or without a non-free library (emacs, for example). If KDE could be built without qt it would be in main. > I don't think that's likely to happen, so why should you worry about it? Beats me. I don't understand what Linas is on about. -- John Hasler john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:53 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:41:59 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 14:52:24 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id OAA04514 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:52:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07079 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:52:22 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00022 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:51:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00017 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:51:38 -0500 Received: from smtp1.jps.net (smtp1.jps.net [209.63.188.20]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06995 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:51:37 -0500 Received: from harpo.local (oak-port213.jps.net [209.239.194.213]) by smtp1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22431 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harpo.local (gam3@harpo.local [127.0.0.1]) by harpo.local (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12193 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:50:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199807261950.MAA12193@harpo.local> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Comment about `reconcile' Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:50:15 -0700 From: "G. Allen Morris III" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e62d76be380a0000 It seems to me that reconcile should be a date rather that a flag. The reason for this is to allow `hard' account adjustments. If on 6/6/97 I know what checks and deposits have been posted and the balance of the account I can _set_ rather than _adjust_ the balance. I understand that this would be a major change to the design. But thought that I might bring it up now. --------------------------------- G. Allen Morris III ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:05:58 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:05 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 15:26:11 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id PAA14388 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:26:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14253 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:26:05 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01474 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:02 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01448 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:00 -0500 Received: from bucky.win.bright.net (bucky.win.bright.net [208.140.2.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13549 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:25:00 -0500 Received: from dhh.gt.org (elk4-cs-5.win.bright.net [208.149.150.57]) by bucky.win.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with ESMTP id PAA24139 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dhh.gt.org id m0z0Wv0-0008RiC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:57:18 -0500 (CDT) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <199807261740.MAA16804@shadygrove.linas.org> From: john@dhh.gt.org Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:57:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:40:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <87hg048jxd.fsf@hasler.dhh> Lines: 51 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 808fa4d21e100000 Linas writes: > The implied threat is that if I include Qt in my source, debian will > black-list it. No program that requires a non-free library can be included in Debian's main distribution. This is not a threat: it is a basic part of what Debian is. > Of course, I could point out that a gtk-only build is possible,... Then there is no problem, just as there is no problem with emacs, which can be built with motif. > ...but who knows what the archive maintainer will decide? You have some mistaken ideas about how Debian works. > Once the source is tainted, its tainted. What are you talking about? > What I don't like is that I am trying to steer a neutral course by > accepting & working with gtk, motif & qt front-ends. Fine. > And then one day, that neutrality is not allowed: one is either for, or > against. Since the pressure & threats seem to be coming from the debian > side, it is instinctive for me to resent them. Could we see some of these threats? Will you name the individuals making them? > But the language, the behaviour patterns, the arguments, the threats, the > resentment are the same: "if you do this, we will blackball you, and > since we are bigger than you, you can take it or lump it." It is a very > dangerous course for debian to pursue. Please produce some evidence. I read all of the Debian mailing lists on which important decisions are made, and I have never once seen either you or gnucash mentioned (you can read the archives of all but one of these mailing lists yourself on the web site). >From what I know of gnucash, there is no reason that it cannot go into the main Debian distribution (provided that someone feels moved to package it, of course). -- John Hasler john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:06:08 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:14 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 16:20:23 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id QAA00552 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28476 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:20:14 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA05201 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:19:29 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05197 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:19:28 -0500 Received: from bucky.win.bright.net (bucky.win.bright.net [208.140.2.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27876 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:19:27 -0500 Received: from dhh.gt.org (elk5-cs-13.win.bright.net [208.149.150.82]) by bucky.win.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with ESMTP id QAA03015 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:19:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dhh.gt.org id m0z0XpA-0008RhC (Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:55:20 -0500 (CDT) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: From: john@dhh.gt.org Date: 26 Jul 1998 15:55:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: Tony's message of Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:16:02 +0000 (Local time zone must be set--see zic manual page) Message-ID: <87btqc8h8o.fsf@hasler.dhh> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4c1c95d8960c0000 Tony writes: > Adding an alternate interface to the standard GTK+ interface is harmless. The idea that the existence of qt bindings would keep gnucash out of Debian is, as far as I can determine, entirely a figment of Linas' imagination. The argument on the debian-devel mailing list is about *binaries* of KDE linked against qt. Even the extremists concede that if KDE could be built with a free library it could go in the main Debian distribution. Emacs can be built with motif. Since it can also be built without motif, it's ok for it to be in the main Debian distribution. The same applies to gnucash. Debian could care less what additional bindings anyone wants to add to gnucash. Motif, qt, Win32, whatever you want: as long as gnucash can be built with free software *we don't care*. -- John Hasler john@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:06:11 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:17 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 16:38:43 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id QAA05907 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32000 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:38:36 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA06097 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:37:28 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06079 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:37:22 -0500 Received: from fleming.jimpick.com (fleming.jimpick.com [204.209.212.123]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31628 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:37:17 -0500 Received: (from jim@localhost) by fleming.jimpick.com (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) id OAA05236; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:37:15 -0700 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: GnuCash: GPL vs. Qt X-Url: http://www.jimpick.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jim Pick Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:37:14 -0700 Message-ID: <87n29w47lh.fsf@fleming.jimpick.com> Lines: 82 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" X-Face: Hz"C77\53<,u1}C~=DFwS#Ddj161XLl6W!3g7xjxh*P'`FF^-IYQXX$a*WC~=^8rvy"~<3z UeQqGo&KZe[}lJg`\+SDMGRVIUJ~P,#(=w~yYv{g9i%"k|\J|jYVvv^Bzfwo=@AddrDMO% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:06:23 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:30 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Jul 26 18:19:46 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id SAA06127 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:19:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24806 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:19:45 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11797 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:16:43 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11792 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:16:27 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23200 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:14:37 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-93-10.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.42]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11327 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:14:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z0Zzb-0006Lc-00; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:14:15 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: gnucash and Qt, again References: <87btqc8h8o.fsf@hasler.dhh> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Jul 1998 18:14:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: john@dhh.gt.org's message of "26 Jul 1998 15:55:19 -0500" Message-ID: <87ogucp5mg.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 34 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0ac256cd5a0f0000 john@dhh.gt.org writes: > Debian could care less what additional bindings anyone wants to add > to gnucash. Motif, qt, Win32, whatever you want: as long as gnucash > can be built with free software *we don't care*. Right. FWIW I only brought this up in the first place because I thought it might be worth alerting people that there *might* be a reason to reconsider expending too much effort on the Qt side for those who weren't already familiar with the issue. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have said anything [1]. (This whole issue seems to be unduly emotionally charged.) My *personal* preference is to avoid getting involved with non-free code, especially code that (assuming what was posted is accurate), could actually prevent me from working on something else (like Harmony). This is the same reason you'll be unlikely to catch me working on/with the proprietary bits of Java (also assuming I understand that issue well enough to comment). But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to having Qt/Motif/Whatever front ends. Anyway, I agree that we've got better things to be doing at the moment, and I'm now convinced that this is not a problem we have to worry about right now. As long as GnuCash continues to have a completely free implementation, I'm satisfied. [1] Blame it on me being inundated by the debate on debian-devel. If you're sick of seeing this here, imagine multiplying it by about 100, and making it about 10 times louder :> -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:06:41 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:42:48 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Jul 27 02:31:20 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980724-1953-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id CAA09350 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:31:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA17774 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:31:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05860 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:29:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05856 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:29:38 -0500 Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA17389 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:29:35 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA32219; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:28:07 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id CAA23764; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:48:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:48:13 -0500 From: Linas Vepstas Message-Id: <199807270748.CAA23764@shadygrove.linas.org> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org, xacc@linas.org Subject: Announce: v1.1.13 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 225a51cf160d0000 Announce: gnucash version 1.1.13 is out. -- a more functional gtk version from Jeremy Collins. Ability to Add Accounts Ability to Delete Accounts Ability to Open Accounts via toolbars "Open" button Tree View shows all accounts w/balances.. and its in a "tree" view now. If you exit after making changes a dialog will prompt you to save. Double clicking a tree item opens that account single clicking just selects it.. ( the way it is suppose to be ) cleaned up various warning messages Toolbar, and Main Menu are Gnomified now ( ie tearable ) -- support for color added -- motif version now uses the "split register". This is a register window which allows multiple splits to be added to and edited along with the transaction. Most of the code is "gui independent", and so modifying the gtk version to start using it should be fairly straightfoward ... The point of adding color was to make it clear where one transaction started and ended, since the presence of the split lines makes things visually confusing. Its still very buggy & cells are not being redrawn properly but if your lucky, you may be able to get a sense of what that thing may end up looking like. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:07:16 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:43:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Jul 29 01:41:20 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/sem-980728-2116-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id BAA17500 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:41:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08941 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:41:04 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA04293 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:38:05 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04288 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:38:04 -0500 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08149 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:38:03 -0500 Received: from interlog.com (cr33858-a.ym1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.0.186]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA2462 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <35BDE564.910D276B@interlog.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:51:17 -0400 From: Ami Ganguli Reply-To: aganguli@interlog.com Organization: Ganguli Network Services Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "gnucash-devel@gnucash.org" Subject: Is there a "transaction engine"? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 20313de93f0c0000 I'm new to the list (and to GnuCash), so please point me to the docs if this is a FAQ... I'm interested in pulling apart GnuCash into a client-server application. Does this already exist? Am I likely to be able to do this with GnuCash, or would it be simpler to code something from scratch? Is there a set of functions that could be turned into a back-end API? It should be possible to create several 'transaction engines' that implement a well defined API. If you want a stand-alone app you link (perhaps dynamically) with a 'local' transaction engine. If you want a client-server app you link with the 'remote' transaction engine. If you want a Postgres back-end you link with the 'sql' transaction engine ... you get the idea. Comments? ... Ami. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:07:22 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:43:28 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Jul 29 13:12:32 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/cgm-980729-1150-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id NAA20715 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:12:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29735 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:12:02 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA07804 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:51 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07799 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:50 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28612 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:48 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-65-14.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.126]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22914 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z1aeH-0004IK-00; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:08:25 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Config engine stuff. From: Rob Browning Date: 29 Jul 1998 13:08:24 -0500 Message-ID: <87g1fkbkdj.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 75 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a911d89c8e150000 OK, I've got the preferences engine up and running, and I'm working on improvements. I wanted to run this by everyone to make sure no one has any tremendous objections, or things that need changing before I go too much further. Right now it handles string, integer, and boolean preferences, but it's not hard to extend it. My guess is that the main missing item would be lists of these types (similar to the getopt feature where multiple option specifications on the command line are combined into a list rather than being treated as "last one wins"). The system will startup, load the preference definitions, source a global config file if it exists, source a ~/.gnucash.user if it exists, and a ~/.gnucash.auto if not. Then it parses the command line. The system is capable of generating a detailed usage string on demand. All this is controlled by "preference definitions" which look like this: (gnc:describe-pref "doc-path" "documentation path" 'string "set the documentation path" "/usr/doc/gnucash/manual" gnc:prefs-handle-string-arg valid-fs-path?) The arguments are option-name: the name of the pref that should be used on the command line value-name: what this value's really for (used in usage strings) value-type: legal type for values description: full description of the option and it's usage default-value: value to be used if none is set. value-parsing-func: This function converts the command line string to a value. value-verify-func: once the value has been converted, is it legal? There are a set of functions on the scheme side for manipulating preferences (getting/setting values, etc.), and these functions can be used (the public ones at least) from any config files to manipulate preferences. The scheme functions are also readily availble from the C side using the standard guile interface functions. However, to make life a little easier, we also have the following C "helper" functions. SCM gnc_pref_lookup_def(const char *pref_name); /* Looks up the pref_data to be used below. The returned object is good for the lifetime of the program invocation, so you only need to call this once. */ char *gnc_pref_name_get(SCM pref_data); char *gnc_pref_value_name_get(SCM pref_data); char *gnc_pref_type_get(SCM pref_data); char *gnc_pref_description_get(SCM pref_data); char * gnc_pref_string_value_get(SCM pref_data); long gnc_pref_integer_value_get(SCM pref_data); bool gnc_pref_boolean_value_get(SCM pref_data); bool gnc_pref_string_value_set(SCM pref_data); bool gnc_pref_integer_value_set(SCM pref_data); bool gnc_pref_boolean_value_set(SCM pref_data); What's missing at the moment is the feature that Linas wanted, a callback mechanism. The idea is that to prevent C code from having to poll the scheme side all the time to make sure it's not using stale preference values, we need a callback mechanism so that you can register C functions to be executed whenever a specific preference changes. That'll be coming, but I haven't quite decided how it should be implemented yet. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:07:45 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:43:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Jul 30 11:08:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/cgm-980730-1009-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id LAA09250 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:08:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13563 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:08:42 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09906 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:07:29 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09901 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:07:28 -0500 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13129 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:07:26 -0500 Received: from interlog.com (cr33858-a.ym1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.0.186]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA4AB8 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:07:26 -0700 Message-ID: <35BFBC5D.EB9EAE83@interlog.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:20:45 -0400 From: Ami Ganguli Organization: Ganguli Network Services Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Is there a "transaction engine"? References: <199807300630.BAA06526@shadygrove.linas.org> <87pvencpn1.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 83648353ad0a0000 Rob Browning wrote: > One think I started looking at recently was ILU. I haven't had a > chance to look it over thoroughly, but it might make more sense than swig. > It might also be worthwhile to see how the Gnome folks are coming with ORBit. Does anybody know? Why did they decide to roll their own anyway? ... Ami. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:07:29 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:43:35 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Jul 30 00:29:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/sem-980729-1705-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id AAA23381 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:29:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12446 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:29:43 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA11827 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:28:35 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11823 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:28:35 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12317 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:28:33 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08097; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:28:36 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA06346; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:50:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199807300550.AAA06346@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: problem with the gnucash download (fwd) To: xacc@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:49:59 -0500 (CDT) X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 464e3c0720120000 FYI. > > Hello > > I just downloaded a copy of gnucash-072298-13.tar.gz from > > ftp://ftp.gnucash.org/pub/snapshots/ and I noticed something odd in > > the distribution files. There is a directory called "xacc/.../.../", > > and containes a number of abnormal files. To me this looks like an > > underground tool kit used to break into systems. Needless to say, I > > think you should take a close look at this. > > > > Thanks for the warning. I looked at it, its a fancy irc bot of some sort. > Its harmless if you don't use irc. > > irc == internet relay chat > bot == automated robot > > by putting a bot on an irc channel, it can "listen" to the conversation, > & do things in response. This can be as inane as saying hello to everyone > who joins the conversation, (we have AOL for that), to as stupid as insulting > them, and kicking them off. It can also be used to provide help, download > files, upload files, manage servers remotely, automatically grab and display > URL's on broswer, or be a security hole or trojan horse. which is why irc > is so dangerous. > > But Jeremy, the maintainer of the gnucash site, is an irc lunatic, and so it > looks like his automated tools snarfed this one up into the distribution > somehow. Unfortunately, he's out on vacation, and I don't have a passwd > or login on this machine (hmmm... I have to think about that a bit...), > so it looks like it will stay there for a while. > > Sorry for the alarm. Do read up on irc a bit, there is some truly fascinating > technology in there, very very different than your usual ftp/telnet/www world. > Personally, I think its a preview of what the "distributed objects java > everywhere" world will look like in 5-10 years, in the same way that BBS > systems of 10 years ago were a preview of today's internet. > > Or rather, its not a preview of the technology, but a preview of the kind of > "cool things" one can do with true real-time, distributed autonomous agents. > Of course, in 10 years, the technology will be entirely different, but people > and how they will use it will not be. The point being that IRC bots are > highly customizable autonomous agents that don't need a rocket scientist to > create, modify, operate. (ie high school kids are doing it). The culture of > irc, the medium, how its used & put to use is as different from what we know > as www is from telnet. And you thought chat rooms were boring! > > --linas > > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:08:12 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:44:18 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Jul 30 23:40:53 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980730-1806-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id XAA25664 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:40:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA31182 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:40:50 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27351 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:37:36 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27339 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:37:33 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28236 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:37:32 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-65-14.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.126]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28925; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:37:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z26wO-00054Y-00; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:37:16 -0500 To: xacc@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Announce: v1.1.13 References: <199807310423.XAA11550@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 30 Jul 1998 23:37:16 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:23:59 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87ogu6r5z7.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 43 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.24/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 48cb04a8220f0000 linas@linas.org writes: > I set negative values to be in red letters (just like old xacc). Good idea, but CList won't do it. > what about per-cell fonts? Nope. That would have to be added too. > > I suppose > > that an initial hack for the current code would just set the row color > > whenever asked to set the cell color. Unless cells in a given row > > need to be different colors, that might work OK for now. > > That would be a good hack. If I get the time soon, and if someone doesn't beat me to it, that's probably what I'll do. First I'm going to take the CList code and look at it again to see how hard I think in-place editing's going to be. I really don't want to invest any more effort into the current GTK hack if I can avoid it. It has very little future potential. > > I'm beginning to think that we're going to need to just take either > > the CList code or the GtkSheet code and add our own features > > (primarily in-place editing). Whether or not this should be submitted > > as an upstream patch or just kept as a local hack will probably depend > > on what we do with it. > > "if you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when > will you have the time"? I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. > > I think I'm going to ask on the gtk list, just to see if there's > > someone there who could do this faster who's interested. > > Good idea. Be sure to explain why. Oh definitely. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Aug 2 03:08:21 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Aug 2 02:44:27 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Jul 31 02:29:49 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wdh-980730-1806-POPAUTH) with ESMTP id CAA07731 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:29:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA32255 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:29:41 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA02582 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:28:49 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02578 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:28:48 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA32182 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:28:46 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (dial-65-14.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.126]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29565 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:28:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0z29c9-00058s-00; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:28:33 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Config engine stuff. References: <199807310621.BAA12016@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 31 Jul 1998 02:28:33 -0500 Message-ID: <87af5qpjha.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 176 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 15911c8253250000 linas@linas.org writes: > color names a la X, and fonts are the other two that pop to mind. Well I would treat those as strings with a a fancy verify function. > speaking of which, how does gtk deal with color, fonts? what about > themes? I thought rasterman or someone was theme-ifying the gtk > widgets. If I wanted to set the "File" menu red, and the "Open..." > button blue, should I use gnc prefs, or some E theme thingy ? Well, I know that gtk has rc files, but I can't find any docs at the moment. The section in the info pages is empty. I can UTSL, but I don't have the S handy. I know that GNOME also has an argument (and probably) resource file mechanism. Whether or not it differs from GTK, I don't know ATM. The reason I ignored all these and started "rolling our own" was because 1) The GTK and GNOME implementations seem to be in flux and are not well documented (that I've seen) yet. 2) I couldn't convince myself that it would do what we want, and I *know* that a guile mechanism will. Further, I don't really want to end up with the argument parsing and resource file mechanisms implemented separately. They're too close to the same thing. On a more preferential note, I like the way emacs handles things, and I was sort of modeling things in that direction. With respect to (2), I want to be able to have things like this in the starup file (see way below for a better example): (if (eq? today "Monday") (gnc:pref-value-set! "base-color" "blue") (gnc:pref-value-set! "base-color" "white")) You can't do stuff like this if you use one of the normal (i.e. not based on a real language) resource file mechanisms. We *do* want to support whatever features are necessary to cleanly integrate with GNOME, but I'm not sure we want to use their parsers. > I'm thinking that the "standard gtk way of doing things" would be > best because people would be familiar with it. My suspicion is (related to what I've said above), that the "standard" way is going to be too limiting for some of the things we want to handle. I don't think that a .Xdefaults style file is nearly flexible enough. > On the other hand, I want to make the register layout completely > configurable, e.g. specify which columns are visible, which not, > maybe configure the "reconcile" checkbox to actually be a date > field, etc. Yep. > There is the nasty possibility of a mixed metaphor, where some > "prefs" are set one way, some another way. This is to be avoided. I'm still leaning in favor of handling all the prefs ourselves. > Well, I want to reasnably compactly allow the user to say things like: > > Date: column 1: DateHandler > Price: column 7: AmountHandler > # Reconcile: column 4: CheckBoxHandler this is commented out > Reconcile: column 3: DateHandler > > does this qualify as a "list" ? Actually, I should have said "lists containing any of the types or sub-lists" So depending on what this you actually wanted, I'd probably do this like: (gnc:pref-value-set! (gnc:pref-lookup "some-pref") '(("Date:" 1 gnc:DateHandler) ("Price:" 7 gnc:AmountHandler) ;; ("Date:" 4 gnc:CheckBoxHandler) ("Reconcile:" 3 gnc:DateHandler)) If we weren't limited to types that the C side can easily handle, I might make this even cleaner, but this isn't too bad. > > The system will startup, load the preference definitions, source a > > global config file if it exists, source a ~/.gnucash.user if it > > exists, and a ~/.gnucash.auto if not. > > whats the diff between auto and user ?? This was something I thought we hashed out a while ago, but here's the idea (from src/prefs/design.txt, which is out of date now...): By default, gnucash (or whatever we call it) will write all automatically generated (by user interaction in the GUI or whatever) config info to a file ~/.gnucash/config.auto in the form of guile code. Then at startup, gnucash *first* tries to read ~/.gnucash/config.user. If it can't, it falls back to ~/.gnucash/config.auto, but only if ~/.gnucash/config.user doesn't exist. Normal users will only have a ~/.gnucash/config.auto file, and they'll be happy. Users who want to tweak things manually will be able to create an ~/.gnucash/config.user file and go nuts in there, loading ~/.gnucash/config.auto whenever they feel like it (or not at all). Of course if they *never* source it, they'll never see changes they make in the GUI, but there will be plenty of warnings in the docs. > Which could get dangerously long ... > Take a look at Netscape.ad for how Xt preferences work, and note that > it was 70K for version 1.0, and is 250K for version 4.0 !! > > Think of what that would look like if each of those things were > a command line option! Well, I was thinking that *anything* that was a "preference" should be settable from the command line, but if we do think that some options should only be settable from the config file (or the UI), then I can easily add an option to the pref specification that omits it from the usage message, and refuses to accept it on the command line. I'm not sure what that buys us though... > How do I deal with e.g. heiracrchy? Say I want to specify one color > "scheme" for the cash register, another for the "credit" register. > (scratching my head desperately, trying to think of other heirarchical > things in gnucash). Well, I wasn't thinking of really sophisticated heirarchy mechanisms. I would have just figured these would be prefs like: --cash-register-base-color --cash-register-highlight-color etc... > Nah, skip that. That's not it. What I want is the ability to write > a routine, in perl, to e.g. suck stock data down from a web site at > the click of a button. In fact, CBBrowne has donated just this kind > of code, its sitting there in one of the gnucash subdirectories. > But gnucash is still missing a menu item labeled "suck down stock > data". Right, but I thought you also wanted the callback mechanism so that you wouldn't have to put calls to get pref values everywhere in the financial engine. These values may change during the run of the program, so you can't just cache them at the start. > Thus, one of the preferences would/could/should? be exprssible as: > > add menu item "suck stock" to menu "Update" > call CBB perl script when "suck stok" pressed > import "suck stock" data into current open view Right, I'd want it to look like this: (define (suck-stock) (let ((ledger (gnc:current-ledger))) (if (not current-ledger) (gnc:dismissable-alert "You must have an open ledger.") (begin (let ((data (gnc:capture-output "/somewhere/suck-stock"))) (gnc:cram-suck-stock-output-into-ledger ledger data)))))) (gnc:add-menu-item '("Update" "suck stock") suck-stock) All this would be pretty straightforward to add. The hardest part would be writing gnc:cram-suck-stock-output-into-ledger, and even that wouldn't be too bad. It'll be responsible for making all the backend calls. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body