From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:22 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:58 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 29 23:16:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA00947 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:16:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18991 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:16:12 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03821 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:14:43 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03817 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:14:42 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18220 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:14:41 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA30973; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:09:33 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id XAA03163; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:58:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199809300458.XAA03163@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II To: s_lichtenauer@muenchen.org (Stephan Lichtenauer) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:58:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <3610A755.F7965257@muenchen.org> from "Stephan Lichtenauer" at Sep 29, 98 11:24:37 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Stephan Lichtenauer said: > > ok, i'll think about that when i start prototyping today or in the next days. i'll make > this with idl-files. as soon as i have some concrete ideas i will publish them here for > discussion. Wow! Cool, I'm excited. Actually, I also go excited over the register/filter/match-maker thingy for data sources, I decided that's really important for the next step. I was wondering if you could write that up again, with all of the corrections from the previous emails? Unless of course that's what your thinking of prototyping ... --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:15 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 29 06:23:40 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id GAA20213 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:23:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24929 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:23:39 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA31879 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:12:45 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA31875 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:12:44 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org (ns0.muenchen.org [194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22183 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:12:44 -0500 Received: from muenchen.org (dialwin112.moving-people.net [195.38.156.112]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA08606; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:10:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3610A755.F7965257@muenchen.org> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:24:37 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linas@linas.org CC: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II References: <199809270321.WAA19274@shadygrove.linas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Hi again! linas@linas.org wrote: Well, I have an alternative proposal. The current engine has a pointer > to a general, generic dumping ground for additional data to be associated > with a split. Its called "docref". I propose that it point to > mime-typed/multipart data, and/or URL-encoded key-value pairs. > > It's just that I have a bad taste in my mouth from using C++ base classes > for something as "simple" as a split. Before you know it, you are doing > upcasts everywhere, and calling the IsA() method on ever base class. > > If you are serious about adding all sorts of additional info, it might > make more sense to build a separate infrastructure that is tuned for > handling that type of stuff. Lets talk more ... > > --linas ok, i'll think about that when i start prototyping today or in the next days. i'll make this with idl-files. as soon as i have some concrete ideas i will publish them here for discussion. regards stephan ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:07 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:43 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 21:51:01 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA00331 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:51:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06469 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:51:00 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07222 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:48:37 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07218 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:48:35 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05337 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:48:35 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27982; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:43:33 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id WAA29883; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:32:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199809290332.WAA29883@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Mentioned on ./ Prepare for suffering. To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:32:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87k92ob25c.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 28, 98 12:03:27 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > > We were just mentioned on SlashDot. I hope our web server's feeling > invincible today. don't know about gnucash.org, but I'm doing OK w/ 1.8KB/sec for the day. But two weeks ago, someone (freshmeat??) slammed me with 100% network full for about 30 hours straight. Zillions of source downloads. Very impressive. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:06 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:42 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 21:40:11 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA23825 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:40:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02477 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:40:08 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA06396 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:37:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06392 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:37:37 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01786 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:37:37 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27962; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:32:30 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id WAA29836; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:21:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199809290321.WAA29836@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: UI vs engine To: jacobs@jtek.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: from "Stan Jacobs" at Sep 28, 98 04:23:39 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Stan Jacobs said: > > This brings up a good point, though.... Is this mailing list archived > somewhere for those of us who just joined? No, we need a vlunteer to set this up. I've got copies of most of the messages, as do I am sure many ohters. > Also, is there a coordinated project list of who's working on what? Well, I dusted off the old list and put it on http://linas.org/linux/xacc/projects.html I need help from everyone who thinks they're working on this: please make sure that you, your name, your projoect shows up, and that its appropriately worded. I know I've foprgotten to mention a bunch of people who said they were going to/had done, etc. things. (Send corrections in private). > How do you determine what features are integrated into the final product? the features that are included in the final product are those that are written, tested, debugged We even include some that aren't debugged in the early stages. :-) --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:55 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:31 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 16:45:11 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA04636 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:44:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02216 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:44:38 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18743 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:39:13 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18736 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:39:11 -0500 Received: from www.llamacom.com (www.llamacom.com [209.152.94.130]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00324 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:39:11 -0500 Received: (qmail 15775 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1998 21:44:03 -0000 Received: from www.llamacom.com (209.152.94.130) by www.llamacom.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 1998 21:44:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:44:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Gregory Martin Pfeil X-Sender: pfeilgm@www.llamacom.com To: Rob Browning cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: UI vs engine In-Reply-To: <87pvcfncrn.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > I think it was Jim Pick who mentioned he was > going to work on an emacs UI. This should work quite well as long as > you're happy running emacs (and why wouldn't you be :>). Ahh, good. I can deal with that. I just joined the list a few minutes ago so I guess I missed all that. Wonderful :) -- Greg Pfeil --- Software Engineer --- (pfeilgm@|http://)technomadic.org =====Bad Command or File Name. Good try, though.===== ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:52 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:28 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 16:11:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA14417 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:11:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26184 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:11:43 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15938 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:05:31 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15933 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:05:30 -0500 Received: from www.llamacom.com (www.llamacom.com [209.152.94.130]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24596 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:05:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 14744 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1998 21:10:23 -0000 Received: from www.llamacom.com (209.152.94.130) by www.llamacom.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 1998 21:10:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:10:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Gregory Martin Pfeil X-Sender: pfeilgm@www.llamacom.com To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: UI vs engine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 I was checking out the site, happy to see that this type of software is in development. I was also happy to see the one of the "must have" features is an engine separate from the UI. This is something I do in every project I am involved with and try to encourage others to do as much as possible. That alone puts you above 90% of the projects I see. One niggle I'd like to mention though, is the lack of "developing other UIs" on the "if someone will code them" list. I think the availability of a UI for non-GUI users (like myself) is pretty important. I know that your primary audience is the desktop user, but I think it's at least important enough to put it on the "if someone will code them" list. I would work on a curses (or line-based) UI myself, but I am currently bogged down with other projects. If however, I find myself with time (a rare treasure), I'll definitely take care of this. I just thought I'd put it out in the open if anyone else wants to grab it now. -- Greg Pfeil --- Software Engineer --- (pfeilgm@|http://)technomadic.org =====Bad Command or File Name. Good try, though.===== ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:00 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:36 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 18:25:07 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id SAA04198 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:25:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02967 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:25:04 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25949 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:23:55 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25942 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:23:49 -0500 Received: from primetime.jtek.com (primetime.jtek.com [208.143.228.23]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02579 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:23:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by primetime.jtek.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA03878 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:23:39 GMT Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:23:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Stan Jacobs Reply-To: Stan Jacobs To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: UI vs engine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Gregory Martin Pfeil wrote: > Ahh, good. I can deal with that. I just joined the list a few > minutes ago so I guess I missed all that. Wonderful :) This brings up a good point, though.... Is this mailing list archived somewhere for those of us who just joined? *smile* I'm guessing that the list got at least a few more members today with the "advertising" on Slashdot. :-) Also, is there a coordinated project list of who's working on what? How do you determine what features are integrated into the final product? Just wondering how this all works in this Brave GNU World. ;-) While I've been working with Internet banking applications for a couple of years now, this is my first distributed-development, open source, etc. project. thanks for your help, - Stan - -- Stan Jacobs Software Developer jacobs@jtek.com ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:03 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:38 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 19:38:21 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id TAA13557 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:38:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26057 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:38:19 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA30904 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:37:05 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30900 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:37:04 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25711 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:37:04 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-65-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.128]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22132; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:37:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.04 #1 (Debian)) id 0zNnmi-0000Iv-00; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:36:56 -0500 To: Stan Jacobs Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: UI vs engine References: From: Rob Browning Date: 28 Sep 1998 19:36:55 -500 In-Reply-To: Stan Jacobs's message of "Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:23:39 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: <87k92nn49k.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 37 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070033 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.33) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Stan Jacobs writes: > This brings up a good point, though.... Is this mailing list archived > somewhere for those of us who just joined? Don't know. If it's not mentioned on the web page, then only Jeremy would probably know. > Also, is there a coordinated project list of who's working on what? Not really, though there is a file which gives a rough idea. I forget what it's called... I think there's a pointer from the web page (at least there was from Linas' xacc page). > How do you determine what features are integrated into the final > product? Generally, you bring it up on the list, and unless someone shoots you down, if you do a reasonably good job, Linas will incorporate your patches. I'm working on guile integration and hopefully soon on the graphing stuff (though I'd be happy to discuss that with others who are interested in working on it). Linas works on the engine, and several others work on various other items. Among many other things, we need work on the GTK/GNOME GUI (which you should coordinate with Jeremy and Ted MeloN). > Just wondering how this all works in this Brave GNU World. ;-) While > I've been working with Internet banking applications for a couple of > years now, this is my first distributed-development, open source, > etc. project. Welcome. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:48:12 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:48 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 29 04:00:18 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id EAA21339 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18282 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:00:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA25621 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:58:59 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA25615 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:58:58 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org (ns0.muenchen.org [194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17637 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:58:54 -0500 Received: from muenchen.org (dialwin125.moving-people.net [195.38.156.125]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA04919; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:56:44 +0200 Message-ID: <360FC230.C9C549BC@muenchen.org> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:06:57 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linas@linas.org CC: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II References: <199809270321.WAA19274@shadygrove.linas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Hi Linas! I will try to work out a specification next and then develop some kind of prototype. Regards Stephan PS Excuse my short answer but right at the moment I have not much free time. I will continue discussion and start work on specification as soon as possible. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:53 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:29 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 16:34:49 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA28390 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31984 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:34:46 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18303 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:30 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18298 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:28 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31803 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:28 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-65-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.128]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21230; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.04 #1 (Debian)) id 0zNkv1-0000FJ-00; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:19 -0500 To: Gregory Martin Pfeil Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: UI vs engine References: From: Rob Browning Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:33:16 -500 In-Reply-To: Gregory Martin Pfeil's message of "Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:10:23 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87pvcfncrn.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070033 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.33) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Gregory Martin Pfeil writes: > I would work on a curses (or line-based) UI myself, but I am currently > bogged down with other projects. If however, I find myself with time > (a rare treasure), I'll definitely take care of this. I just thought > I'd put it out in the open if anyone else wants to grab it now. I think it was Jim Pick who mentioned he was going to work on an emacs UI. This should work quite well as long as you're happy running emacs (and why wouldn't you be :>). -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:43 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:19 1998) X-From_: camm@enhanced.com Mon Sep 28 10:32:44 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA16204 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:32:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from enhanced.com (enhanced.ppp.cyberenet.net [208.17.129.184]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15039 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:29:29 -0500 Received: by enhanced.com with esmtp (ident camm using rfc1413) id m0zNfEu-000I3lC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Sender: camm@hydra.host4u.net Message-ID: <360FAB57.548505B5@enhanced.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:29:27 -0400 From: Camm Maguire Organization: INTECH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i486) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webmaster@gnucash.org Subject: GnuCash and SSL/Internet Banking Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Just an idea: I have an intenet bank account that lets me manage my accounts over the web. I'm in the process of writing an automatic SSL download feature, together with a little private database of the relevant information. This might be a good feature, but then again it might not. The SSL stuff would not be redistributable. Good Luck with the project! -- Camm Maguire camm@enhanced.com ========================================================================== "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." -- Baha'u'llah From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:41 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:17 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 09:48:29 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA17112 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:48:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01653 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:48:25 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18622 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:40:09 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18617 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:40:08 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31496 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:40:07 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25436; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:34:59 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id KAA27494; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:23:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199809281523.KAA27494@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: OFX? To: perry@piermont.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:23:14 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <8767e9nzim.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 27, 98 03:09:37 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > > Would OFX really allow GnuCash to do most sorts of bank-at-home > applications? Yes. Sort-of. There is an older, proprietary protocol (from Checkfree?) still widely in use, but the banks have raised thier hands and pledged to convert to ofx any day now. > If so, and if no one is looking at doing this intensively right now, > does anyone know where to get OFX documentation? I might be interested > in looking at this. there are refreneces & etc in the src/ofx directory see www.ofx.net > > Perry > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ > The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and > put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:47 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 28 12:04:37 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA13312 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:04:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14139 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:04:31 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA30294 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:03:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30287 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:03:36 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14010 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:03:34 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-65-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.128]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19484 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:03:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zNghv-0002uc-00; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:03:31 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Mentioned on ./ Prepare for suffering. From: Rob Browning Date: 28 Sep 1998 12:03:27 -500 Message-ID: <87k92ob25c.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070033 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.33) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 We were just mentioned on SlashDot. I hope our web server's feeling invincible today. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:27 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:03 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 27 19:46:48 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id TAA27362 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:46:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08186 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:46:46 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06267 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:43:16 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06262 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:43:14 -0500 Received: from perninha.conectiva.com.br (perninha.conectiva.com.br [200.203.180.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07014 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:43:12 -0500 Received: from animaniacs.conectiva.com.br (IDENT:acme@animaniacs.conectiva.com.br [200.250.241.2]) by perninha.conectiva.com.br (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA19812; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:42:31 -0300 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:43:45 -0300 (EST) From: Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org cc: cavassin@conectiva.com.br, sandro@conectiva.com.br Subject: i18n Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 Hi, Is anybody working in i18n? I know the project is in its early days but I think it's worth to look at the internationalization issues from the beginning! If nobody's working on this issues I'll take the job! I've already done this work for: net-tools e2fsprogs minicom dialog and others. - Arnaldo "These are questions for action, not speculation, which is idle." - Noam Chomsky ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Fri Oct 2 19:47:25 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Oct 2 14:24:01 1998) X-From_: jeff@jab.org Sun Sep 27 18:08:16 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id SAA19187 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:08:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from multivac.jab.org (cc592915-a.sumt1.nj.home.com [24.3.176.203]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07830 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:08:12 -0500 Received: (from jeff@localhost) by multivac.jab.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA26753; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:11:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:11:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199809272211.SAA26753@multivac.jab.org> From: Jeff Breidenbach To: jcollins@gnucash.org Subject: gnucash list X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Jeremy, I saw the gnucash announcement on Slashdot, and added the list (gnucash-devel) to www.mail-archive.com so I can check on things from time to time. If this is a problem, please let me know. Thanks, Jeff From - Sun Sep 27 23:06:01 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 17:43:11 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 27 14:12:39 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id OAA01290 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:12:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02640 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:12:37 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20644 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:09:44 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20636 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:09:40 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01774 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:09:39 -0500 Received: (from perry@localhost) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id PAA03893; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:09:38 -0400 (EDT) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: OFX? Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: "Perry E. Metzger" Date: 27 Sep 1998 15:09:37 -0400 Message-ID: <8767e9nzim.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> Lines: 9 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Would OFX really allow GnuCash to do most sorts of bank-at-home applications? If so, and if no one is looking at doing this intensively right now, does anyone know where to get OFX documentation? I might be interested in looking at this. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Sep 27 16:23:50 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 11:01:03 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 19:12:37 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id TAA03791 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:12:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09764 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:12:35 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA08671 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:07:18 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08667 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:07:17 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08296 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:07:17 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19481; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:02:20 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id TAA18449; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:49:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199809270049.TAA18449@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: OFX and GnuCash To: urutishauser@bigfoot.com (Ueli Rutishauser) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:49:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: joe.cotellese@gvox.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <360CD70B.E67012C8@bigfoot.com> from "Ueli Rutishauser" at Sep 26, 98 01:59:07 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Ueli Rutishauser said: > Yes, OFX is for talking to banks. > > i have done some experiments with OFX and communicate to some broker > banks. they are all in the CVS when you want to look to it. > > Joe Cotellese wrote: > > > I have a question re: OFX. Is this the specification used by MS > > Money and Quicken for talking to banks? The reason I ask, is the only > > thing left that I use that is Windows specific is MS Money. If I had > > a financial package that supported PC banking I could leave Windows > > behind forever. > > > > Anyway, I thought about doing some work on GnuCash in this area but > > it looks like you all ready are. I don't beleive anyone, including Ueli, is working on the ofx code. At one point I started writing a generic parser for DTD's, treating the DTD's as if they were IDL's and so that the parser would be a DTD-to-C++ converter. Never finished the work. Even if I had, one would still need to integrate this with the app. We need a master coder to tackle this part of the work. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Sep 27 23:06:02 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 17:43:13 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 27 16:00:19 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA05650 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:00:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01938 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:00:17 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26472 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:56:33 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26464 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:56:31 -0500 Received: from swix.ch (Server2.swix.ch [195.210.0.34]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01094 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:56:30 -0500 Received: from red.urto.net (ppp308.swix.dataway.ch [195.216.65.232]) by swix.ch (8.8.5/4.5/two/19) with ESMTP id VAA16560; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:51:30 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8767e9nzim.fsf@jekyll.piermont.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:26:27 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: urutishauser@bigfoot.com From: Ueli Rutishauser To: "Perry E. Metzger" Subject: RE: OFX? Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On 27-Sep-98 Perry E. Metzger wrote: > Would OFX really allow GnuCash to do most sorts of bank-at-home > applications? Yes > If so, and if no one is looking at doing this intensively right now, > does anyone know where to get OFX documentation? I might be interested > in looking at this. you can get all the documentation at ofx.net . there are some test scripts in the CVS tree. i have allready managed it to establish a connection to E*Trade (internet broker) and get a full listing of my positions there. so its not that hard to understand OFX. i think no one is looking to OFX (enough) intensively at the moment, so you are welcome to ;-) cu ueli ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Sep 27 16:23:39 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 11:00:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 07:01:39 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id HAA18790 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:01:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18081 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:01:37 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA08699 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 06:58:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08683 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 06:57:58 -0500 Received: from pant.paus.ch (pant.paus.ch [194.209.60.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA17089 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 06:57:59 -0500 Received: from slip139-92-60-28.klo.ch.ibm.net (slip139-92-60-28.klo.ch.ibm.net [139.92.60.28]) by pant.paus.ch (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aeb5) with ESMTP id ha193187 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:56:26 +0200 Message-ID: <360CD70B.E67012C8@bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:59:07 +0200 From: Ueli Rutishauser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Cotellese CC: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: OFX and GnuCash References: <3.0.5.32.19980924094141.007eba70@squirrel.gvox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hello Joe, Yes, OFX is for talking to banks. i have done some experiments with OFX and communicate to some broker banks. they are all in the CVS when you want to look to it. cu ueli Joe Cotellese wrote: > I have a question re: OFX. Is this the specification used by MS > Money and Quicken for talking to banks? The reason I ask, is the only > thing left that I use that is Windows specific is MS Money. If I had > a financial package that supported PC banking I could leave Windows > behind forever. > > Anyway, I thought about doing some work on GnuCash in this area but > it looks like you all ready are. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Sep 27 16:23:33 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 11:00:46 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 02:59:25 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id CAA08501 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:59:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16900 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:58:58 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA00438 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:56:55 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00434 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:56:54 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16083 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:56:54 -0500 Received: from nevermore.csres.utexas.edu (mail@dial-116-30.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.168.174]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06118 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:56:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore.csres.utexas.edu with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zMpDj-0000IB-00; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:56:47 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: CVS policies and gnome References: <199809260613.BAA14252@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 26 Sep 1998 02:56:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:13:01 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87ogs3xq68.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Way we used to deal with gnome/gtk code was that Jeremy Collins was the > coordinator. People would send him code, and if he liked it, he'd send it > to me. But I am not sure if he is filling/wants to fill the role any > more. Right, Jeremy was handling all the GNOME stuff but the register and reconcile windows which I was dealing with. I was just sending my patches to him. As far as I'm concerned Ted is now in charge of the register. Whether or not it makes sense for him to go through Jeremy I'll leave for them to figure out. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:45:08 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:22:31 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 00:33:02 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA06384 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:32:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09187 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:32:35 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28774 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:30:40 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28770 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:30:40 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08996 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:30:38 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17927; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:25:48 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA14252; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:13:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199809260613.BAA14252@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: CVS policies and gnome To: magnus@alum.mit.edu (Daniel R Risacher) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:13:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: from "Daniel R Risacher" at Sep 25, 98 09:16:07 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 It's been rumoured that Daniel R Risacher said: > > > I've now got the gnome interface to a point where it compiles and > loads a file with the old clist-based interface, which I figure is a > first step towards being ready to help with the new-n-improved gnome > interface. > > So I'm wondering, who else is working the gnome interface currently, > and what's the status? MelloN implied that he's got some stuff in the > works, but the code in cvs doesn't look particularly new. Way we used to deal with gnome/gtk code was that Jeremy Collins was the coordinator. People would send him code, and if he liked it, he'd send it to me. But I am not sure if he is filling/wants to fill the role any more. > Also, whats the policy for cvs access? Is Linas the only one with > write access? It might be convenient to coordinate with whoever else > is working gnome issues if we all shared write access. Due to my security paranoia, even I don't have write access :-) the external cvs is just a mirror of the real cvs which is elsewhere. The goal of having jeremy be the single point of contact was precisely to avoid people stomping on each other. I'd like to keep things that way (having a coordinator); but I need to know who that will be. BTW, more frequent code drops are better than occasional ones. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:45:05 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:22:27 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 00:18:34 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA02687 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:18:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05929 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:18:08 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28255 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:16:26 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28251 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:16:25 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05662 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:16:25 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (andare.fugue.com [204.152.188.83]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA21116; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id WAA12156; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809260516.WAA12156@andare.fugue.com> To: Daniel R Risacher cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: CVS policies and gnome In-Reply-To: Your message of "25 Sep 1998 21:16:07 -0000." Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:16:23 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Daniel, I've been working on the widget and have only started tying it back into GNUcash yet. If you've got something that compiles, I'd like to see it - I can't get past guile right now. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sun Sep 27 16:23:38 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Sep 27 11:00:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sat Sep 26 05:49:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id FAA01750 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:49:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA13766 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:18:42 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA02406 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:16:44 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02402 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:16:43 -0500 Received: from risacher.worldnet.att.net (233.bridgeton-10.mo.dial-access.att.net [12.67.17.233]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA13612 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:16:41 -0500 Received: (from magnus@localhost) by risacher.worldnet.att.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA05528; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:13:29 GMT To: Ted Lemon Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: CVS policies and gnome References: <199809260516.WAA12156@andare.fugue.com> From: Daniel R Risacher Date: 26 Sep 1998 04:13:28 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of "Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:16:23 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 45 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 >>>>> "Ted" == Ted Lemon writes: Ted> Daniel, I've been working on the widget and have only started Ted> tying it back into GNUcash yet. If you've got something that Ted> compiles, I'd like to see it - I can't get past guile right Ted> now. Well, it looks like I cleverly used cvs to stomp on my own changes. They won't be hard to duplicate, but in a half hour I 'm leaving for 5 days in Disneyworld, :) and I don't have time to work up patches. In general though, I remember these problems off the top of my head: 1. Guile required different associated libs in the makefiles. I'm using guile-core-19980818. I needed to remove -lqthreads and add -lsomething. guile-core-971026 wasn't recent enough. 2. gnucash-shutdown wasn't defined anywhere, which caused startup to fail. I replaced gnucash-shutdown with gnc-shutdown in startup.scm, and that went away. 3. src/gnome/main.c has a problem with open_new_file(). Really, this looked kludgy and should be rethought, but replacing the line: newgrp = xaccReadAccountGroup (datafile); with newgrp = xaccReadAccountGroup (newfile); would at least get the thing to load a file. Also, I still think shared-write CVS is a good thing. I've used it sucessfully on several projects before. Maybe I could set up a parallel CVS project on *my* CVS server for the gnome developers to share experimental code. Ak. Gotta go. Cya. -- I fully intend to live forever. Or die trying. Daniel Risacher magnus@alum.mit.edu ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:48 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:22:11 1998) X-From_: lovell@hatchet.fc.hp.com Fri Sep 25 22:41:16 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA29540 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:40:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hpfcla.fc.hp.com (hpfcla.fc.hp.com [15.254.48.2]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09345 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:37:15 -0500 Received: from hatchet.fc.hp.com (hatchet.fc.hp.com [15.11.162.209]) by hpfcla.fc.hp.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA01901 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hatchet.fc.hp.com (fcml6264h.fc.hp.com [15.18.162.194]) by hatchet.fc.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id VAA08726 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:37:14 -0600 (MDT) Sender: lovell@hatchet.fc.hp.com Message-ID: <360C605C.2BA8D87D@hatchet.fc.hp.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:32:44 +0000 From: Matthew Lovell Organization: Hewlett-Packard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webmaster@gnucash.org Subject: Building gnucash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 Hi, I was hoping you could help me with a build error. I just downloaded the latest packages available for GNOME and attempted to build the gnome version of GNUcash. The make process stops with the error below, however. I was hoping you could enlighten me about what swig was... Thanks in advance, Matt make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src/register' make[3]: Entering directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src/guile' echo "/* This file is automatically generated from the Makefile */" /* This file is automatically generated from the Makefile */ echo "/* Do not edit. */" /* Do not edit. */ echo "#define GNC_SHARE_DIR_DEFAULT \"\"" > path-defaults.h echo "#define GNC_CONFIG_DIR_DEFAULT \"\"" >> path-defaults.h echo "#define GNC_DOC_DIR_DEFAULT \"\"" >> path-defaults.h make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src/guile' make[3]: Entering directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src/swig' swig -I../engine -I../guile -guile -o guile/gnucash-guile_wrap.c gnucash.i make[3]: swig: Command not found make[3]: *** [guile/gnucash-guile_wrap.c] Error 127 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src/swig' make[2]: *** [gnome] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18/src' make[1]: *** [build-flavor] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/lovell/misc/downloads/gnucash-1.1.18' make: *** [gnome] Error 2 -- Matthew Lovell voice: (303) 772-4526 709 Rocky Mountain Pl email: lovell@indra.com Longmont, CO 80501 From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:52 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:22:13 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Sep 25 23:29:40 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA18398 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:29:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24947 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:29:14 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26529 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:26:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26524 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:26:02 -0500 Received: from risacher.worldnet.att.net (17.bridgeton-11.mo.dial-access.att.net [12.67.18.17]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24514 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:25:59 -0500 Received: (from magnus@localhost) by risacher.worldnet.att.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02534; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:16:08 GMT To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: CVS policies and gnome From: Daniel R Risacher Date: 25 Sep 1998 21:16:07 +0000 Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 I've now got the gnome interface to a point where it compiles and loads a file with the old clist-based interface, which I figure is a first step towards being ready to help with the new-n-improved gnome interface. So I'm wondering, who else is working the gnome interface currently, and what's the status? MelloN implied that he's got some stuff in the works, but the code in cvs doesn't look particularly new. Also, whats the policy for cvs access? Is Linas the only one with write access? It might be convenient to coordinate with whoever else is working gnome issues if we all shared write access. -- I fully intend to live forever. Or die trying. Daniel Risacher magnus@alum.mit.edu ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:29 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:52 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 23 10:06:34 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA15529 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:06:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05588 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:06:33 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09610 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:57:50 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09603 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:57:49 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01706 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:57:48 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA12092; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:53:14 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id KAA32249; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:39:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199809231539.KAA32249@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Guile To: Jon.K.Hellan@item.ntnu.no (Jon Kaare Hellan) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: from "Jon Kaare Hellan" at Sep 23, 98 09:24:42 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 It's been rumoured that Jon Kaare Hellan said: > As to the multi currency features: GREAT. I was planning to try > them out, Don't get too discouraged, and don't get too hoppeful, its still broken in various ways. e.g. in the register window, it often displays the wrong currency in the wrong cell, thus leading to lots of confusion. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:29 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 23 10:00:38 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA11890 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:00:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03059 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:00:37 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09270 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:52:42 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09266 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:52:41 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32014 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:52:40 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-75-7.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.103]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07381 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:52:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zLqHM-0006Dx-00; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:52:28 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Guile / stack overflow References: <199809150255.VAA08878@shadygrove.linas.org> <19980923175116.A6586@cs.mu.oz.au> From: Rob Browning Date: 23 Sep 1998 09:52:28 -500 In-Reply-To: Jon Kaare Hellan's message of "23 Sep 1998 11:40:39 +0200" Message-ID: <873e9ij2z7.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Jon Kaare Hellan writes: > That's probably it. Silly me. I just installed a new guile when I saw > that things didn't work. You also need to make sure you have the right version of libguile-dev installed. Just the right version of guile won't do it. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:24 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:46 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 23 04:51:41 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id EAA13283 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:51:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20962 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:51:38 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA27334 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:40:42 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27328 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:40:41 -0500 Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17442 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:40:39 -0500 Received: from hyll.item.ntnu.no (1759@hyll.item.ntnu.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27627 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:40:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from hellan@localhost) by hyll.item.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA19792; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:40:39 +0200 (MET DST) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Guile / stack overflow References: <199809150255.VAA08878@shadygrove.linas.org> <19980923175116.A6586@cs.mu.oz.au> From: Jon Kaare Hellan Date: 23 Sep 1998 11:40:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tyson Dowd's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:51:16 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Tyson Dowd writes: > > So did I, but it did not help. Debian sep. 10 snapshot of guile > > 1.3. The rest of the system is (mostly) Debian hamm. > > That's my system, and it works fine, except I needed to add the > patch I posted to the list earlier (for libqthreads). But I stopped > getting stack overflows once I recompiled with version 1.3. ********** That's probably it. Silly me. I just installed a new guile when I saw that things didn't work. -- Jon K. Hellan Jon.K.Hellan@item.ntnu.no Div. of Telematics, Norw. U. of Science & Technology, Trondheim - Norway ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:14 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:36 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 23 03:03:34 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id DAA22041 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:03:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03095 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:03:33 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA21278 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:51:26 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21274 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:51:25 -0500 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA32269 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:51:23 -0500 Received: from stimpy.home.org (stimpy.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.38.115]) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with ESMTP id RAA02449 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:51:21 +1000 (EST) Received: by stimpy.cs.mu.oz.au via sendmail with stdio id (Debian Smail3.2.0.101) for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:51:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980923175116.A6586@cs.mu.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:51:16 +1000 From: Tyson Dowd To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Guile / stack overflow Mail-Followup-To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org References: <199809150255.VAA08878@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jon Kaare Hellan on Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 09:24:42AM +0200 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 On 23-Sep-1998, Jon Kaare Hellan wrote: > > I punted and went to version 1.3 > > So did I, but it did not help. Debian sep. 10 snapshot of guile > 1.3. The rest of the system is (mostly) Debian hamm. That's my system, and it works fine, except I needed to add the patch I posted to the list earlier (for libqthreads). But I stopped getting stack overflows once I recompiled with version 1.3. -- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Tyson Dowd http://tyse.net ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:04 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:26 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 23 02:34:00 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id CAA16049 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:34:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27700 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:33:59 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA20459 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:24:45 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20455 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:24:45 -0500 Received: from pat.idi.ntnu.no (pat.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.103.5]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25187 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:24:44 -0500 Received: from hyll.item.ntnu.no (1759@hyll.item.ntnu.no [129.241.200.3]) by pat.idi.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16792 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:24:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from hellan@localhost) by hyll.item.ntnu.no (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA17122; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:24:42 +0200 (MET DST) To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Guile / stack overflow References: <199809150255.VAA08878@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Jon Kaare Hellan Date: 23 Sep 1998 09:24:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:55:05 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 linas@linas.org writes: > It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > > > Brian Sanders writes: > > > > > gnucash: startup-file is /opt/gnucash/share/scm/startup.scm guile: > > > Stack overflow > > > > > > I am using guile 1.2-6 and lesstif. I may investigate further as > > > time permits. > > > > Linas had this problem, but I'm not sure if he resolved it. It may > > actually be a guile 1.2 problem. FWIW I'm using a guile 1.3 snapshot > > I punted and went to version 1.3 So did I, but it did not help. Debian sep. 10 snapshot of guile 1.3. The rest of the system is (mostly) Debian hamm. As to the multi currency features: GREAT. I was planning to try them out, but since gnucash won't start, I can't. Jon -- Jon K. Hellan Jon.K.Hellan@item.ntnu.no Div. of Telematics, Norw. U. of Science & Technology, Trondheim - Norway ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:54 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:17 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 22:24:46 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA21977 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:24:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11217 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:24:44 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA09370 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:17:19 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09364 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:17:17 -0500 Received: from mail.family-net.net (mail.family-net.net [209.144.36.4]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09058 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:17:17 -0500 Received: (from thayer@localhost) by mail.family-net.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10986 for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:17:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Doug Thayer Message-Id: <199809230317.WAA10986@mail.family-net.net> Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:17:58 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199809230120.UAA01787@critter.ke.gte.net> from "Carl Kreider" at Sep 22, 98 08:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 > > Doug Thayer sez: > > > (snip) > > > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > > > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > > > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > > > features etc. > > > > These neat features attract new developers. They create interest in > > developing for the project and people will do this work because it is > > interesting. Developers are a potentially unlimited resource. Interesting > > aspects of the project which attract developers to actually contribute code > > are important. > > Maybe, but they can also diffuse the effort, especially that of the > primary visionary who is the one producing most of the good code > anyway. Every time I have seen it happen it has hindered more > than it helped. But, of course, YMMV > Yes, that may also happen. I think my point was that you can't apply traditional project-management techniques to free software projects. E.g you can't estimate that implementing CORBA will take 10 man-months of effort, scratch CORBA, and then expect to have 10 man-months of effort to apply to other areas of the project. What may actually happen instead is that CORBA-enthusiast X is going to do all the CORBA work himself plus contribute to the rest of the project as well (because he has to do that in order to get CORBA to work right), and cutting the CORBA element pisses this guy off and he ditches the project, you lose CORBA *and* other stuff. IMO, extra features that someone is contributing basically come free and could be a general asset to the project, and features that noone is working on can be dropped as it becomes apparent no one is interested. I hope that makes it a little clearer. Doug > > > (snip) > > -- > Carl Kreider > aka > ckreider@acm.org ckreider@gte.net carlk@syscon-intl.com > ============================================================ > "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, > and lines to code before I sleep. And lines to code before I sleep." > Anonymous > ============================================================ > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:50 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 20:53:29 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA28725 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:53:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14631 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:53:26 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04634 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:35 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04629 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:33 -0500 From: cbbrowne@hex.net Received: from red.hex.net (red.hex.net [204.155.154.2]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14385 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:33 -0500 Received: from wolfe.brownes.org (peach-195.hex.net [206.54.173.195]) by red.hex.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19421 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 5772 invoked by uid 500); 23 Sep 1998 01:52:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19980923015213.5770.qmail@wolfe.brownes.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: Apps/Accounting/GnuCash/Guile To: cc: cbbrowne@hex.net Reply-to: Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 20:19:27 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:13 -0500 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 > Currently, the program is at a VERY early stage of development - the > major showstopper is the way to implement those bloody PIC data > formats. If you want to join or to share an idea, you are welcome. If > you suggest to rewrite it from scratch, providing reasonable arguments > for it, we'll discuss it. Is this associated with any of the existing efforts? There is a (possibly other) project out there; see: -- Christopher B. Browne, cbbrowne@hex.net, chris_browne@sabre.com Web: http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne SAP Basis Consultant, UNIX Guy Windows NT - How to make a 100 MIPS Linux workstation perform like an 8 MHz 286 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:49 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:11 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 20:52:44 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA28317 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14437 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:52:41 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04552 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:51:53 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04548 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:51:51 -0500 From: cbbrowne@hex.net Received: from red.hex.net (red.hex.net [204.155.154.2]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14262 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:51:51 -0500 Received: from wolfe.brownes.org (peach-195.hex.net [206.54.173.195]) by red.hex.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19248 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:51:52 -0500 Received: (qmail 5763 invoked by uid 500); 23 Sep 1998 01:51:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19980923015145.5761.qmail@wolfe.brownes.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: Apps/Accounting/GnuCash/Guile To: Reply-to: Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:51:44 -0500 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 > OK. In this case, I'm gonna stick a TV tuner in this baby as well as > the ability to run PalmPilot binaries in a special emulator. :-))) > > Seriously, I believe, there must be two documents: the spec and a > wishlist. Future stuff must go into the latter, otherwise, we'll find > ourself one day with a program, that is barely able to keep a list of > transactions, yet fits the Corba, DCOM, and God knows whichever else > model. > > Please do not consider my words as "Corba is bad" or "Corba interface > is useless". We will need it, but definitely later. See also my > comment on SQL below. Agreed. > > > In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things > > > first: > > > > > > 1. Making a feature list - a realistic one, so we could see *what* we > > > want from it. (~2 weeks) > > > > If you call it a "wish list", I am sure that we could somehow get it up > > onto the gnucash website, especially if it looks nice. > > > > Will do it. Don't be surprized, since it will look a lot like Quicken > 4-6. Which is not a bad thing. To those that might *wish* that GnuCash was "all things to all people," it might be an unfortunate thing for it to lack "the kitchen sink." In contrast, a lot of people have found that Quicken has been *adequate* to their needs. There is a great deal of demand for a "not-rocket-science" financial package for Linux. GnuCash can be a wild success by merely fulfilling that need. > > > 4. Go writing the code :). I'd go for writing a new engine, first to > > > take advantage of the model designed, and second, to make sure the > > > implementation is done specifically for this project, and is not > > > some other program incorporated into it. However, most of useful > > > stuff and algorithms in the existing code must be reused. > > > > Why do you want to write a new engine? You can't complain about > > Is 'modify' a better word? ;-) Absolutely. Rewriting it won't look too attractive. > > there being three gui's, and then implying its OK to have two engines > > without clearly articulating why a new engine is needed. > > Isn't it what I am trying to explain in item 4? > > > Many people have talked about and sql engine; there are good reasons to > > have an sql engine. But to duplicate what's here already, but change all > > the routine names, that would be folly. > > I considered using an underlying database, but I eventually dropped > the idea. Again: learn from other people's experience! Imagine a > Quicken user: he gets the program, he installs it and bingo - it > works! Now imagine the very same user and your saying to him "You > know, this GnuCash program is really cool. Try it. But you'll have to > install and configure mySQL or even (gasp) PostgreSQL". Now try to > figure out what product the user would prefer? Especially for home > usage. > > I'd rather suggest using a regular file I/O, but to make sure the API > are good enough to plug ODBC later (*much* later - home users don't > give no heck 'bout all those cranky databases) At this point in time, as much sophistication as is needed is to embed something about as sophisticated as CDB into GnuCash. (I did some testing of CDB, dropping a million-odd email tags into it in about a minute and a half. Very, very fast; very, very cool stuff. 14K of C source code, including utilities... That's roughly what we need...) I'll say it three times: - GnuCash needs to include an embedded DB engine. - GnuCash needs to include an embedded DB engine. - GnuCash needs to include an embedded DB engine. Five years ago, Curt Olsen and I both looked at the possibility of using a non-embedded DB with CBB; it looked like it would be "really cool" to link CBB to something like Postgres or Ingres, but that would have been ludicrously impractical for users to fight with. Today, it's no longer "ludicrously" impractical to use PostgreSQL; merely impractical for the "nonsophisticated user." Returning to the purpose, GnuCash can be *wildly* successful if it fulfils the needs of users looking for a not-very-sophisticated package to replace Quicken. They don't want to worry about DB backups, setting up DB users, or anything of the sort. GnuCash *could* use PostgreSQL if we assume that everyone will be using one of the Linux distributions that pre-installs PostgreSQL. That assumes a whole lot more than we should assume. Note: It's now 5 years after Curt and I first considered using an SQL database for this sort of thing. It was extreme "rocket science" then; it's *still rocket science now.* I would argue that CORBA is equally a "rocket science" thing. It is not ready to unleash on unsuspecting users that haven't a clue of what CORBA is, and will get bewildered when we tell them they need to install an ORB. > > > 5. Once the engine is done, GUI wizards will start their job. :-) I > > > don't want to start a flame war, but I think having one GUI is > > > enough - this would prevent duplicating of effort. I personally > > > (again - my *personal* opinion) would favor Gtk for many reasons: > > > open license, non-proprietary implementation, Gnome compliance. > > > > The gtk version has fallen into disrepair because the gtk maintainer is not > > maintaining it. But there are also some serious technical reasons holding > > gtk back, primarily to do with the (lack of a suitable) table widget. > > Once we have the cornerstone (the engine) working, we can fix that. A good, sound engine design should be readily attached to whatever else may prove necessary. It looks like enough attention has gone into it that the design isn't bad, and should be flexible enough to permit future extensions. CORBA shouldn't be the *base* technology just yet; it should be an *extension.* -- Christopher B. Browne, cbbrowne@hex.net, chris_browne@sabre.com Web: http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne SAP Basis Consultant, UNIX Guy Windows NT - How to make a 100 MIPS Linux workstation perform like an 8 MHz 286 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:43 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:05 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 20:01:42 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA00356 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:01:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29848 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:01:39 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01352 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:58:04 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01316 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:57:32 -0500 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27944 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:55:46 -0500 Received: from stimpy.home.org (stimpy.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.38.115]) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with ESMTP id KAA08555 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:55:36 +1000 (EST) Received: by stimpy.cs.mu.oz.au via sendmail with stdio id (Debian Smail3.2.0.101) for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:55:34 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980923105533.B2731@cs.mu.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:55:33 +1000 From: Tyson Dowd To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more Mail-Followup-To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org References: <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> <19980923011227.A1111@cs.mu.oz.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alexander L. Belikoff on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 06:20:58PM +0200 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 On 22-Sep-1998, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > Tyson Dowd writes: > > > On 22-Sep-1998, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > > > > > > I considered using an underlying database, but I eventually dropped > > > the idea. Again: learn from other people's experience! Imagine a > > > Quicken user: he gets the program, he installs it and bingo - it > > > works! Now imagine the very same user and your saying to him "You > > > know, this GnuCash program is really cool. Try it. But you'll have to > > > install and configure mySQL or even (gasp) PostgreSQL". Now try to > > > figure out what product the user would prefer? Especially for home > > > usage. > > > > Well, with Linux distributions like RedHat or Debian (and perhaps > > some others) installing an SQL database is pretty easy now. > > Pretty bad excuse, isn't it? ;-) Now try to explain the user how to > manage the database permissions and/or do the backups. Or, on the > systems, where the database administrator is different from root, give > a user a hint that the DB admin will be able to check his expenses. The database permissions will be managed by the install scripts for the programs. On a multi-user system root is always able to read all files and data, so the DB admin is really just another root account (from the uncaring users point of view). Any insecurity is regarded as a bug, unless the user wants to open up the system. Backups are handled by integrating the backup agents with the database dumps. > > Better still, consider a system, where there is no database installed > (for space or whatever other reason). Would you suggest a user to > install it manually? No, I'd suggest they move into the late 90s and use a decent packaging system. Or use a simple file based interface, but be aware of the advantages/drawbacks of both. > > To summarize: remember - this program is intended to be used by many > *clueless* users, who only know how to manage their money with Quicken > or a similar product. Once you start assuming any technical > experience, you'll scare them off. Again, we are talking about > *personal* finance manager. A small business/office solution is a > completely different story. GnuCash is both. I use xacc to keep the finances for a business. Quicken 6 is not up to this task because it doesn't have a well developed double-entry model. > > I'd really like it to be a single executable file, which I could give > users and tell them to put it wherever they want - nothing else > required. A .deb and .rpm will be fine for most Linux users. A .tar.gz with autoconfiguring scripts and installation will be ok for the technical ones. > > > > I know that with Debian you can just make gnucash depend on postgresql > > and it will install postgresql for you. Probably the same sort of > > thing in other Linux distros. > > We start talking about distributions - I think it's bad. A program > should not make any of such assumptions. And BTW, Linux is not the > only UNIX system on the market. ;-) I'm well aware of that. And when Joe Quicken starts using Solaris or HP-UX at home, we will try to make it easy for them too. > > > So if someone were to come along and write an SQL backend, I wouldn't > > say it is useless. I'd suspect in a year or two it will be pretty > > common for a package to expect both an SQL database and an ORB to > > be installed already. Users won't even know it's there. > > I have no reasons to disagree with it, but since we are not a "year or > two" ahead, let's assume no SQL database and/or ORB is installed by > default (as it usually is). Sure -- the default system is the current system. > > > Of course more lightweight mechansims would be nice to support at > > the same time. > > Yes, and I think it must be the default way the program works. Of course. But I am not going to let you write off an SQL backend because "it's too difficult to install" ;-) With a halfway decent system you can get it installed without doing a thing. That includes full system integration on a good distribution. If someone wants to write it, I say more power to them. At the very least it will help abstract the back-end some more. -- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Tyson Dowd http://tyse.net ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:44 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:06 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 20:01:47 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA00411 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:01:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29868 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:01:45 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00637 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:43:23 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00594 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:42:51 -0500 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22981 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:41:04 -0500 Received: from stimpy.home.org (stimpy.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.38.115]) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with ESMTP id KAA07098 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:39:13 +1000 (EST) Received: by stimpy.cs.mu.oz.au via sendmail with stdio id (Debian Smail3.2.0.101) for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:39:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980923103859.A2731@cs.mu.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:38:59 +1000 From: Tyson Dowd To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: diff: configure.in and the guile libs. Mail-Followup-To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org References: <19980923003524.A1114@cs.mu.oz.au> <87af3sjg05.fsf@raven.localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i In-Reply-To: <87af3sjg05.fsf@raven.localhost>; from Rob Browning on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 10:58:50AM +0000 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On 22-Sep-1998, Rob Browning wrote: > Tyson Dowd writes: > > > There seems to be some problems with auto-configuring the exact > > set of guile libraries (it appears to be installation dependent > > whether guile actually uses libqthreads). > > Right. I just hacked up these tests. Given my relative inexperience > with autoconf, I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something. It's difficult to test autoconf scripts though, because they don't fail until you use them on someone else's configuration! > > It looks like your test is the same as mine, with -ldl and -lreadline > added to the guile libs. I think perhaps those should be added as > separate tests before the guile test. Also I think testing for a Well, I cannot link with guile without these ones as well. I can test to see if you can link without these libs first. See the new diff below. > function we actually use would be a better idea. How about gh_enter? That's a good idea. I just picked some functions at random -- I'll pick them out of code now. Index: configure.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/configure.in,v retrieving revision 1.24 diff -u -r1.24 configure.in --- configure.in 1998/09/14 06:05:10 1.24 +++ configure.in 1998/09/22 23:26:33 @@ -59,8 +59,6 @@ [ --with-gnome-libraries=DIR specify where to look for gnome libs], X_LIBS="${X_LIBS} -L$with_gnome_libraries" ) -AC_ARG_WITH(package, help-string [, action-if-given [, action-if-not-given]]) - # ******************************************* # check for various programs, and stuff: AC_PROG_INSTALL @@ -94,12 +92,19 @@ AC_DEFINE(HAVE_XPM,1) X_LIBS="-lXpm $X_LIBS", AC_DEFINE(HAVE_XPM,0), -L $x_libraries -lX11) -AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, main, - AC_DEFINE(HAVE_GUILE,1) LIBS="-lguile ${LIBS}", - AC_CHECK_LIB(qthreads, main, - AC_DEFINE(HAVE_GUILE,1) LIBS="-lguile -lqthreads ${LIBS}", - echo "Guile currently required for build"; exit 1;, - -lguile)) +# Set GUILELIBS according to the set of libraries needed to link +# with guile. +AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, gh_enter, + GUILELIBS="-lguile", + AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, gh_define, + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline", + AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, gh_eval_file, + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads", + AC_MSG_WARN(cannot link with guile), + -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads), + -ldl -lreadline) + ) +AC_SUBST(GUILELIBS) # ******************************************* AC_CONFIG_HEADER(config.h) Index: src/gnome/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/gnome/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.18 diff -u -r1.18 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/14 06:03:52 1.18 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 23:26:33 @@ -31,17 +31,19 @@ CC = @CC@ + INCLPATH = -I.. -I../.. -I../engine -I../register -I../guile \ -I@srcdir@/../../include \ - -I$(includedir) -I$(prefix)/lib/gnome-libs/include - + -I$(includedir) CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib @LIBS@ @X_PRE_LIBS@ @X_LIBS@ \ $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lgnomeui -lgnome \ -lgnomesupport -lgdk_imlib -ltiff \ - -lreadline -lintl + $(GUILELIBS) -lintl TARGET = ../../gnucash.gnome Index: src/motif/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/motif/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.14 diff -u -r1.14 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/14 06:03:55 1.14 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 23:26:34 @@ -44,9 +44,10 @@ CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ -DCELL_WIDGETS=1 ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib -lXm -lXmu -lXt -lXext @X_PRE_LIBS@ \ - @X_LIBS@ -lX11 @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ @LIBS@ \ - -lreadline -ldl + @X_LIBS@ -lX11 @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ @LIBS@ $(GUILELIBS) TARGET = ../../gnucash.motif STATIC = ../../gnucash.motif.static Index: src/qt/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/qt/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -u -r1.4 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/11 06:19:33 1.4 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 23:26:34 @@ -31,8 +31,11 @@ CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib @LIBS@ @X_PRE_LIBS@ @X_LIBS@ \ - $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lqt -lkdecore -lkdeui + $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lqt -lkdecore -lkdeui \ + $(GUILELIBS) TARGET = ../../gnucash.qt STATIC = ../../gnucash.qt.static -- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Tyson Dowd http://tyse.net ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:40 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:02 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 18:12:12 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id SAA05904 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:12:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27028 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:12:10 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26835 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:07:56 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26831 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:07:54 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25958 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:07:53 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mg139-045.ricochet.net [204.179.139.45]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA25011; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA27782; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809222307.TAA27782@andare.fugue.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 23:09:37 +0200." Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:07:26 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Alexander, it seems to me that if you want to approach this problem the right way, you should read the code and figure out what Linas is trying to do. By coming up with a spec that's what you think should be done and presenting it as a fait accomplis, you're putting the entire burden of dealing with your needs on Linas. Those of us who are currently content in the belief that he's moving in the right direction would rather have him continue to move than spend time critiquing your specification, particularly if you can't even try to get the starting point close to where he is now. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:37 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:00 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 16:59:28 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA25900 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:59:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04871 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:59:25 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18404 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:27:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18291 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:25:37 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26752 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:23:51 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mg139-045.ricochet.net [204.179.139.45]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA23600; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA27255; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809222123.RAA27255@andare.fugue.com> To: perry@piermont.com cc: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff), linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:36:37 EDT." <199809222036.QAA15036@jekyll.piermont.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:23:18 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Nicely put, Perry. I've been trying to put my finger on the source of my unhappiness about this line of discussion for a while now, and I think you've identified it quite accurately. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:33 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:56 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 16:15:36 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA26883 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:15:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24138 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:13:38 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17296 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:09:41 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17286 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:09:39 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23070 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:09:38 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22031 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:09:37 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21923; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:09:37 +0200 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809222036.QAA15036@jekyll.piermont.com> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 23:09:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Perry E. Metzger"'s message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:36:37 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 51 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 "Perry E. Metzger" writes: > Alexander L. Belikoff writes: > > "Perry E. Metzger" writes: > > > Maybe you could demonstrate your ability to code first? > > > > My programming experience (about 11 years) is in proprietary sector > > (scientific). This includes about 8 years of UNIX programming. I'd > > That's not what I meant. > > The way things work in free software projects is like this: first, > someone starts out contributing bug fixes and enhancements. Then, they > gain respect as people see that they know what they are doing and are > committed to fixing the codebase. Later, if they chip in enough, they > tend to rise to leadership positions. Sorry, I didn't ask or suggest my leadership to any extent. All I want is: - to share my opinion on the subject (a PFM for Unix) and to find out why our visions are different. If my ideas are wrong, then I'll change them. But I have to be convinced I am wrong. - to help developing a product, which would not only be interesting to me and a couple of techno-minded enthusiasts, but to ordinary mortals as well. > People usually don't start out by saying "you don't know what you're > doing. I'm an experienced manager, though, and will help guide you out > of your misery. Here, allow me to write a spec and dictate your > actions." Well, except for the part about the spec, I said nothing like that. :-) What I keep saying is 'I have a bit of experience. Let me share it. If you like it - fine. If not, please explain me why I am wrong.' WRT the spec, I proposed trying to write it. You all DO have a spec - it's in your heads and it's fuzzy and varying from mind to mind. I happen to believe, that the spec helps programming discipline, clearly displaying the extent the project is complete. And BTW, I suggest to write a spec to merely compare with the one of Linas. This would help us all to see whether we are having the same program in mind. -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:32 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:55 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 15:44:42 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id PAA07654 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:44:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16233 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:44:40 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14247 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:36:59 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14225 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:36:53 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13901 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:36:52 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA15036; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809222036.QAA15036@jekyll.piermont.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) cc: perry@piermont.com, linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 20:19:27 +0200." Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:36:37 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 Alexander L. Belikoff writes: > "Perry E. Metzger" writes: > > Maybe you could demonstrate your ability to code first? > > My programming experience (about 11 years) is in proprietary sector > (scientific). This includes about 8 years of UNIX programming. I'd That's not what I meant. The way things work in free software projects is like this: first, someone starts out contributing bug fixes and enhancements. Then, they gain respect as people see that they know what they are doing and are committed to fixing the codebase. Later, if they chip in enough, they tend to rise to leadership positions. People usually don't start out by saying "you don't know what you're doing. I'm an experienced manager, though, and will help guide you out of your misery. Here, allow me to write a spec and dictate your actions." Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:45 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:21:07 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 20:20:56 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA10509 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04004 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:20:54 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02775 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:18:07 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02770 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:18:06 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02834 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:18:05 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-75-7.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.103]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03764 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:17:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zLdZ2-0008En-00; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:17:52 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: diff: configure.in and the guile libs. References: <19980923003524.A1114@cs.mu.oz.au> <87af3sjg05.fsf@raven.localhost> <19980923103859.A2731@cs.mu.oz.au> From: Rob Browning Date: 22 Sep 1998 20:17:51 -500 In-Reply-To: Tyson Dowd's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:38:59 +1000" Message-ID: <87pvcniq4g.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 I don't have time to look at the diff in detail right now, but from my cursory inspection, it looks fine to me. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:20 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:43 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 13:24:57 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id NAA11616 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:24:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03057 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:24:55 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04330 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:21:02 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04290 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:20:56 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01197 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:19:40 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20841; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:19:29 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA20739; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:19:28 +0200 To: perry@piermont.com Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809221708.NAA14376@jekyll.piermont.com> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 20:19:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Perry E. Metzger"'s message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:20 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 54 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 "Perry E. Metzger" writes: > Alexander L. Belikoff writes: > > Let's do it the following way. I'll be back from my trip in two days. > > Then, I'll create the spec as I envision it. > > Maybe you could demonstrate your ability to code first? (Uh-oh, I'm cornered! Time to confess, that my only masterpiece in programming was a bubblesort routine written in MSX Basic :-))) My programming experience (about 11 years) is in proprietary sector (scientific). This includes about 8 years of UNIX programming. I'd like to emphasize, that some of these projects were explicitly targeted to non-professional user community. Recently, after getting a permission to develop *certain* kinds of free software from my current company, I started working on a COBOL->C compiler, which is intended to be part of the GNU project. There is a very clear spec for it: it is supposed to work on all examples from a book "COBOL for dummies". Once this is done, I'll start thinking about real-life extensions. Native mode compilation is not a goal at the current stage, since I believe it is much more important to give people a way to maintain their COBOL legacy and to help them rewrite it in C, rather than just to make them able to run their COBOL programs. Currently, the program is at a VERY early stage of development - the major showstopper is the way to implement those bloody PIC data formats. If you want to join or to share an idea, you are welcome. If you suggest to rewrite it from scratch, providing reasonable arguments for it, we'll discuss it. > > > I hate flamewars. Especially GUI ones. Especially when it is too early > > to think about GUI implementation details. > > I don't think it is too early. We already have a halfway decent piece > of work in hand. With a bit more work, it will actually be usable, > which will bring more users to the project, which will bring more > volunteers and make the code go faster. > > Might I suggest that, before involving yourself more in the free > software community, you read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric > Raymond? Might you consider my being aware of that concept? ;-) I think both concepts are too extreme in their pure form. I prefer a "Bazaar with a vision" (tm) :-))) -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:20 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:42 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 13:08:22 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id NAA01885 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31565 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:21 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03075 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:06:55 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03070 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:06:54 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31301 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:06:54 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mg139-045.ricochet.net [204.179.139.45]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA20847; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA23172; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809221806.OAA23172@andare.fugue.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 18:03:43 +0200." Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:06:01 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > WRONG! Since I am playing an average Joe-user, my spec would be a good > crash test for the project to see whether it meets these needs or not. Alexander, we are _all_ average Joe users. Your view of what an average Joe user wants is not uninteresting, but it's not definitive either. Anyway, it's clear that you're not understanding the point I'm trying to get across, and I don't see how I can express it any more clearly, so I'll shut up now. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:18 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:40 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 12:10:30 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA28431 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:10:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12660 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:10:26 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA31305 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:09:23 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31299 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:09:21 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11937 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:08:57 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14376; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809221708.NAA14376@jekyll.piermont.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200." Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:20 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Alexander L. Belikoff writes: > Let's do it the following way. I'll be back from my trip in two days. > Then, I'll create the spec as I envision it. Maybe you could demonstrate your ability to code first? > I hate flamewars. Especially GUI ones. Especially when it is too early > to think about GUI implementation details. I don't think it is too early. We already have a halfway decent piece of work in hand. With a bit more work, it will actually be usable, which will bring more users to the project, which will bring more volunteers and make the code go faster. Might I suggest that, before involving yourself more in the free software community, you read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond? Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:09 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:32 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 11:24:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA01529 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:24:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26964 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:24:08 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25501 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:22:51 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25497 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:22:50 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25666 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:21:02 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20063 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:20:58 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19856; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:20:58 +0200 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> <19980923011227.A1111@cs.mu.oz.au> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 18:20:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: Tyson Dowd's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:12:27 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 71 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Tyson Dowd writes: > On 22-Sep-1998, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > > > > I considered using an underlying database, but I eventually dropped > > the idea. Again: learn from other people's experience! Imagine a > > Quicken user: he gets the program, he installs it and bingo - it > > works! Now imagine the very same user and your saying to him "You > > know, this GnuCash program is really cool. Try it. But you'll have to > > install and configure mySQL or even (gasp) PostgreSQL". Now try to > > figure out what product the user would prefer? Especially for home > > usage. > > Well, with Linux distributions like RedHat or Debian (and perhaps > some others) installing an SQL database is pretty easy now. Pretty bad excuse, isn't it? ;-) Now try to explain the user how to manage the database permissions and/or do the backups. Or, on the systems, where the database administrator is different from root, give a user a hint that the DB admin will be able to check his expenses. Better still, consider a system, where there is no database installed (for space or whatever other reason). Would you suggest a user to install it manually? To summarize: remember - this program is intended to be used by many *clueless* users, who only know how to manage their money with Quicken or a similar product. Once you start assuming any technical experience, you'll scare them off. Again, we are talking about *personal* finance manager. A small business/office solution is a completely different story. I'd really like it to be a single executable file, which I could give users and tell them to put it wherever they want - nothing else required. > I know that with Debian you can just make gnucash depend on postgresql > and it will install postgresql for you. Probably the same sort of > thing in other Linux distros. We start talking about distributions - I think it's bad. A program should not make any of such assumptions. And BTW, Linux is not the only UNIX system on the market. ;-) > So if someone were to come along and write an SQL backend, I wouldn't > say it is useless. I'd suspect in a year or two it will be pretty > common for a package to expect both an SQL database and an ORB to > be installed already. Users won't even know it's there. I have no reasons to disagree with it, but since we are not a "year or two" ahead, let's assume no SQL database and/or ORB is installed by default (as it usually is). > Of course more lightweight mechansims would be nice to support at > the same time. Yes, and I think it must be the default way the program works. > > What do you regard as broken in the engine? Do you simply mean > that it isn't fully defined? Gentlemen, I never said the engin was broken! What I said was that if the engine doesn't meet the spec, whe have to make it so. But not vice versa. -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:08 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:30 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 11:23:59 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA01376 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26876 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:53 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24849 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:05:43 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24845 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:05:42 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18793 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:03:50 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19953 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:03:43 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19749; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:03:43 +0200 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809221525.LAA09737@andare.fugue.com> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 18:03:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:25:29 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 44 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > This is really worrisome to me. Linas is already working on the > engine. I have no reason to believe he's not doing it right. I > don't see coming in and writing a spec on your own as productive. If > Linas has the spec in his head, then at a minimum before you can make > progress Linas needs to spit the spec out on paper, so that we can > argue about it. If he doesn't have time to do that right now, then > you should wait until he does. > > You should _not_ start writing your own spec - that way lies madness. WRONG! Since I am playing an average Joe-user, my spec would be a good crash test for the project to see whether it meets these needs or not. Then there will be two options: 1. Our specs are more or less similar, so we make a single spec and follow it (despite what people say about specs and free projects - specs *are* good) 2. Our specs show that my vision of a personal finance manager differs significantly from GnuCash goals. In this case, I'll start a new project. > If you can try to intuit Linas's spec from the existing code and > documentation, and then get him to mark it up, that might save him > time and therefore be a win, but I think starting from what you think > the spec should be is not going to be productive. > This is very similar to writing a technical report. One may do an improvization, and it may be pretty good. However, it's always better to sketch the outline in advance. I prefer developing software using the following virtues: - Have a clear understanding *what* you are developing - Learn from other people's experience - Pose *realistic* goals, but allow space for extension. -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:02 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 10:30:24 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA28775 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:30:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05953 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:30:21 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22657 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:25:59 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22652 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:25:59 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04412 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:25:58 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mg139-045.ricochet.net [204.179.139.45]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA18951; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA09737; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809221525.LAA09737@andare.fugue.com> To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200." Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:25:29 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 This is really worrisome to me. Linas is already working on the engine. I have no reason to believe he's not doing it right. I don't see coming in and writing a spec on your own as productive. If Linas has the spec in his head, then at a minimum before you can make progress Linas needs to spit the spec out on paper, so that we can argue about it. If he doesn't have time to do that right now, then you should wait until he does. You should _not_ start writing your own spec - that way lies madness. If you can try to intuit Linas's spec from the existing code and documentation, and then get him to mark it up, that might save him time and therefore be a win, but I think starting from what you think the spec should be is not going to be productive. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:58 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:20 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 10:16:39 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA20570 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:16:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01012 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:16:37 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA21718 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:12:35 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21707 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:12:33 -0500 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA32189 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:12:32 -0500 Received: from stimpy.home.org (stimpy.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.38.115]) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with ESMTP id BAA18610 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:12:28 +1000 (EST) Received: by stimpy.cs.mu.oz.au via sendmail with stdio id (Debian Smail3.2.0.101) for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:12:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980923011227.A1111@cs.mu.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:12:27 +1000 From: Tyson Dowd To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more Mail-Followup-To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org References: <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alexander L. Belikoff on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 04:38:09PM +0200 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On 22-Sep-1998, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > > I considered using an underlying database, but I eventually dropped > the idea. Again: learn from other people's experience! Imagine a > Quicken user: he gets the program, he installs it and bingo - it > works! Now imagine the very same user and your saying to him "You > know, this GnuCash program is really cool. Try it. But you'll have to > install and configure mySQL or even (gasp) PostgreSQL". Now try to > figure out what product the user would prefer? Especially for home > usage. Well, with Linux distributions like RedHat or Debian (and perhaps some others) installing an SQL database is pretty easy now. I know that with Debian you can just make gnucash depend on postgresql and it will install postgresql for you. Probably the same sort of thing in other Linux distros. So if someone were to come along and write an SQL backend, I wouldn't say it is useless. I'd suspect in a year or two it will be pretty common for a package to expect both an SQL database and an ORB to be installed already. Users won't even know it's there. Of course more lightweight mechansims would be nice to support at the same time. > > The gtk version has fallen into disrepair because the gtk maintainer is not > > maintaining it. But there are also some serious technical reasons holding > > gtk back, primarily to do with the (lack of a suitable) table widget. > > Once we have the cornerstone (the engine) working, we can fix that. > What do you regard as broken in the engine? Do you simply mean that it isn't fully defined? -- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Tyson Dowd http://tyse.net ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:51 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:13 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 09:42:09 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA29442 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:42:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21120 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:42:07 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20030 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:38:14 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20025 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:38:13 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19508 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:38:11 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19389; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA19058; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200 To: linas@linas.org Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 16:38:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:30:11 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 149 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ohayoo gozaimasu, linas@linas.org writes: > -- This is your project. If you don't like some aspect, fix it. > That's the whole point of open source. You can't, shouldn't > sit on your hands waiting for me or rob to fix something or > add some feature. > That's what I've started doing yesterday on the mailing list. :-) That's what I'm going to do on the project. > > > > 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project > > development a bit fuzzy > > There's a stale project feature list at > http://linas.org/linux/xacc/projects.html > Help me fix it if you wish. > > There are desgin docs in various directories, there is a fair amount of > docs in the various header files. > > The spec is in my head. mv /head/spec.tex ~/gnucash/doc/ cd !$ cvs add spec.tex && cvs commit spec.tex :-) Let's do it the following way. I'll be back from my trip in two days. Then, I'll create the spec as I envision it. Untill recent couple years, I used to be a project manager, so I know how to create realistic goals, yet to masquerade them as "everything and a kitchen sink" :-)). Seriously, let's check my spec and create the one for GnuCash. This will be the master development document, unless some urgent feature needs to be added. > The schedule is "when I feel like it", until more people contribute, > in which case the schedule is "when they feel like it". > > > 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - > > the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 > > GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a > > complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line > > interface and then only one yet good GUI. > > The original code was in Motif; I continue to maintain the motif version. > Jeremy comes along, and says "I want to do gtk" ... what am I supposed to > say: "piss off, suck rocks, its motif forever"? Hardly a way to win > collaborators ... so I said "Whatever, duuude", and he sent me functional > gtk code. The Qt intrface is a similar story. I hate flamewars. Especially GUI ones. Especially when it is too early to think about GUI implementation details. Let's get back to this once the engine meets the would-be spec. > > > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > > features etc. > > Hey, free speech. If you don't plan for the future, the future will pass > you by. OK. In this case, I'm gonna stick a TV tuner in this baby as well as the ability to run PalmPilot binaries in a special emulator. :-))) Seriously, I believe, there must be two documents: the spec and a wishlist. Future stuff must go into the latter, otherwise, we'll find ourself one day with a program, that is barely able to keep a list of transactions, yet fits the Corba, DCOM, and God knows whichever else model. Please do not consider my words as "Corba is bad" or "Corba interface is useless". We will need it, but definitely later. See also my comment on SQL below. > > > In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things > > first: > > > > 1. Making a feature list - a realistic one, so we could see *what* we > > want from it. (~2 weeks) > > If you call it a "wish list", I am sure that we could somehow get it up > onto the gnucash website, especially if it looks nice. > Will do it. Don't be surprized, since it will look a lot like Quicken 4-6. > > > > 4. Go writing the code :). I'd go for writing a new engine, first to > > take advantage of the model designed, and second, to make sure the > > implementation is done specifically for this project, and is not > > some other program incorporated into it. However, most of useful > > stuff and algorithms in the existing code must be reused. > > Why do you want to write a new engine? You can't complain about Is 'modify' a better word? ;-) > there being three gui's, and then implying its OK to have two engines > without clearly articulating why a new engine is needed. Isn't it what I am trying to explain in item 4? > Many people have talked about and sql engine; there are good reasons to > have an sql engine. But to duplicate what's here already, but change all > the routine names, that would be folly. I considered using an underlying database, but I eventually dropped the idea. Again: learn from other people's experience! Imagine a Quicken user: he gets the program, he installs it and bingo - it works! Now imagine the very same user and your saying to him "You know, this GnuCash program is really cool. Try it. But you'll have to install and configure mySQL or even (gasp) PostgreSQL". Now try to figure out what product the user would prefer? Especially for home usage. I'd rather suggest using a regular file I/O, but to make sure the API are good enough to plug ODBC later (*much* later - home users don't give no heck 'bout all those cranky databases) > > 5. Once the engine is done, GUI wizards will start their job. :-) I > > don't want to start a flame war, but I think having one GUI is > > enough - this would prevent duplicating of effort. I personally > > (again - my *personal* opinion) would favor Gtk for many reasons: > > open license, non-proprietary implementation, Gnome compliance. > > The gtk version has fallen into disrepair because the gtk maintainer is not > maintaining it. But there are also some serious technical reasons holding > gtk back, primarily to do with the (lack of a suitable) table widget. Once we have the cornerstone (the engine) working, we can fix that. Regards, -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:50 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 09:39:32 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA27686 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:39:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19963 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:39:29 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19842 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:35:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19837 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:35:36 -0500 Received: from mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.1.22]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18756 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:35:34 -0500 Received: from stimpy.home.org (stimpy.cs.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.38.115]) by mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU with ESMTP id AAA17374 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:35:26 +1000 (EST) Received: by stimpy.cs.mu.oz.au via sendmail with stdio id (Debian Smail3.2.0.101) for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:35:24 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980923003524.A1114@cs.mu.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:35:24 +1000 From: Tyson Dowd To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: diff: configure.in and the guile libs. Mail-Followup-To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2i Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 There seems to be some problems with auto-configuring the exact set of guile libraries (it appears to be installation dependent whether guile actually uses libqthreads). The configuration didn't work on my system (Debian 2.0 + slink updates), it would print "Guile currently required for build" despite the fact I had guile installed in /usr... So I made a few "improvements". I think the new version is more general: first it tests without -lqthreads, then with -lqthreads. PS I don't think it's very worthwhile keeping "configure" under CVS -- it can change depending upon which version of autoconf you use to create it. But if you were to remove it you would have to make sure that it gets generated before you distribute .tar files (I usually use a "make tar" target to do this). Anyway, the diff to "configure" is included but is probably useless. Index: configure.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/configure.in,v retrieving revision 1.24 diff -u -r1.24 configure.in --- configure.in 1998/09/14 06:05:10 1.24 +++ configure.in 1998/09/22 13:15:30 @@ -59,8 +59,6 @@ [ --with-gnome-libraries=DIR specify where to look for gnome libs], X_LIBS="${X_LIBS} -L$with_gnome_libraries" ) -AC_ARG_WITH(package, help-string [, action-if-given [, action-if-not-given]]) - # ******************************************* # check for various programs, and stuff: AC_PROG_INSTALL @@ -94,12 +92,17 @@ AC_DEFINE(HAVE_XPM,1) X_LIBS="-lXpm $X_LIBS", AC_DEFINE(HAVE_XPM,0), -L $x_libraries -lX11) -AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, main, - AC_DEFINE(HAVE_GUILE,1) LIBS="-lguile ${LIBS}", - AC_CHECK_LIB(qthreads, main, - AC_DEFINE(HAVE_GUILE,1) LIBS="-lguile -lqthreads ${LIBS}", - echo "Guile currently required for build"; exit 1;, - -lguile)) +# Sometimes guild requires libqthreads, sometimes it doesn't. +# Set GUILELIBS according to the set of libraries needed to link +# with guile. +AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, scm_init_print, + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline", + AC_CHECK_LIB(guile, scm_print_options, + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads", + AC_MSG_WARN(cannot link with guile), + -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads), + -ldl -lreadline) +AC_SUBST(GUILELIBS) # ******************************************* AC_CONFIG_HEADER(config.h) Index: configure =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/configure,v retrieving revision 1.20 diff -u -r1.20 configure --- configure 1998/09/14 06:05:09 1.20 +++ configure 1998/09/22 13:15:39 @@ -2166,23 +2166,30 @@ fi -echo $ac_n "checking for main in -lguile""... $ac_c" 1>&6 -echo "configure:2171: checking for main in -lguile" >&5 -ac_lib_var=`echo guile'_'main | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'` +# Sometimes guild requires libqthreads, sometimes it doesn't. +# Set GUILELIBS according to the set of libraries needed to link +# with guile. +echo $ac_n "checking for scm_init_print in -lguile""... $ac_c" 1>&6 +echo "configure:2174: checking for scm_init_print in -lguile" >&5 +ac_lib_var=`echo guile'_'scm_init_print | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'` if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6 else ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS" -LIBS="-lguile $LIBS" +LIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline $LIBS" cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest; then +if { (eval echo configure:2193: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest; then rm -rf conftest* eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes" else @@ -2197,29 +2204,30 @@ fi if eval "test \"`echo '$ac_cv_lib_'$ac_lib_var`\" = yes"; then echo "$ac_t""yes" 1>&6 - cat >> confdefs.h <<\EOF -#define HAVE_GUILE 1 -EOF - LIBS="-lguile ${LIBS}" + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline" else echo "$ac_t""no" 1>&6 -echo $ac_n "checking for main in -lqthreads""... $ac_c" 1>&6 -echo "configure:2208: checking for main in -lqthreads" >&5 -ac_lib_var=`echo qthreads'_'main | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'` +echo $ac_n "checking for scm_print_options in -lguile""... $ac_c" 1>&6 +echo "configure:2212: checking for scm_print_options in -lguile" >&5 +ac_lib_var=`echo guile'_'scm_print_options | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'` if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6 else ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS" -LIBS="-lqthreads -lguile $LIBS" +LIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads $LIBS" cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest; then +if { (eval echo configure:2231: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest; then rm -rf conftest* eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes" else @@ -2234,18 +2242,16 @@ fi if eval "test \"`echo '$ac_cv_lib_'$ac_lib_var`\" = yes"; then echo "$ac_t""yes" 1>&6 - cat >> confdefs.h <<\EOF -#define HAVE_GUILE 1 -EOF - LIBS="-lguile -lqthreads ${LIBS}" + GUILELIBS="-lguile -ldl -lreadline -lqthreads" else echo "$ac_t""no" 1>&6 -echo "Guile currently required for build"; exit 1; +echo "configure: warning: cannot link with guile" 1>&2 fi fi + # ******************************************* @@ -2390,6 +2396,7 @@ s%@X_PRE_LIBS@%$X_PRE_LIBS%g s%@X_LIBS@%$X_LIBS%g s%@X_EXTRA_LIBS@%$X_EXTRA_LIBS%g +s%@GUILELIBS@%$GUILELIBS%g CEOF EOF Index: src/gnome/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/gnome/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.18 diff -u -r1.18 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/14 06:03:52 1.18 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 13:15:39 @@ -31,17 +31,19 @@ CC = @CC@ + INCLPATH = -I.. -I../.. -I../engine -I../register -I../guile \ -I@srcdir@/../../include \ - -I$(includedir) -I$(prefix)/lib/gnome-libs/include - + -I$(includedir) CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib @LIBS@ @X_PRE_LIBS@ @X_LIBS@ \ $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lgnomeui -lgnome \ -lgnomesupport -lgdk_imlib -ltiff \ - -lreadline -lintl + $(GUILELIBS) -lintl TARGET = ../../gnucash.gnome Index: src/motif/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/motif/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.14 diff -u -r1.14 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/14 06:03:55 1.14 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 13:15:39 @@ -44,9 +44,10 @@ CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ -DCELL_WIDGETS=1 ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib -lXm -lXmu -lXt -lXext @X_PRE_LIBS@ \ - @X_LIBS@ -lX11 @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ @LIBS@ \ - -lreadline -ldl + @X_LIBS@ -lX11 @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ @LIBS@ $(GUILELIBS) TARGET = ../../gnucash.motif STATIC = ../../gnucash.motif.static Index: src/qt/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/cvsroot/xacc/src/qt/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -u -r1.4 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1998/09/11 06:19:33 1.4 +++ Makefile.in 1998/09/22 13:15:39 @@ -31,8 +31,11 @@ CFLAGS = @CFLAGS@ @X_CFLAGS@ ${INCLPATH} LDFLAGS = @LDFLAGS@ + +GUILELIBS = @GUILELIBS@ LIBS = -L$(prefix)/lib @LIBS@ @X_PRE_LIBS@ @X_LIBS@ \ - $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lqt -lkdecore -lkdeui + $(shell gtk-config --libs) @X_EXTRA_LIBS@ -lqt -lkdecore -lkdeui \ + $(GUILELIBS) TARGET = ../../gnucash.qt STATIC = ../../gnucash.qt.static -- Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Tyson Dowd http://tyse.net ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:49 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 09:36:19 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA25335 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:36:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18938 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:36:17 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19473 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:31:35 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19469 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:31:34 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17137 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:31:35 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mg139-045.ricochet.net [204.179.139.45]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA18492; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA06731; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809221430.KAA06731@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:30:11 CDT." <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:30:49 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > The gtk version has fallen into disrepair because the gtk maintainer is not > maintaining it. But there are also some serious technical reasons holding > gtk back, primarily to do with the (lack of a suitable) table widget. Just wait'll you see what I've got cooking. I think you'll be suitably impressed... :') _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:46 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:09 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 06:50:04 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id GAA09032 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:50:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA30515 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:50:03 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09276 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:44:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA09272 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:44:38 -0500 Received: from mail.family-net.net (mail.family-net.net [209.144.36.4]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29053 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:44:38 -0500 Received: (from thayer@localhost) by mail.family-net.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA11282 for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:45:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Doug Thayer Message-Id: <199809221145.GAA11282@mail.family-net.net> Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:45:20 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Alexander L. Belikoff" at Sep 21, 98 08:51:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project > development a bit fuzzy This is the reality of Free Software projects. Specs create unparalleled opportunities for disruptive, pointy-headed arguments ("No! let's use Java for everything!"). Plus there are always people who are great arguers but can't actually produce any code. Specs, while they may seem like a good idea, destroy projects. Schedules likewise. The software is ready *when it is ready*. > 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - > the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 > GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a > complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line > interface and then only one yet good GUI. Ah, but with GNOME vs. KDE going on out there it was inevitable that someone would contribute code for those two interfaces. And if that code is contributed, why not include it? If it becomes unusable, it can be taken out again just as easily. It's not like an ordinary corporate project where you have a set number of developers to accomplish your spec in a given schedule. Instead, you have a variable number of developers who may contribute to your vision and create some usable software. > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > features etc. These neat features attract new developers. They create interest in developing for the project and people will do this work because it is interesting. Developers are a potentially unlimited resource. Interesting aspects of the project which attract developers to actually contribute code are important. > Please don't consider me a whiner, I'm just expressing my concerns on > the project. Besides, I'm trying to get an idea of the project state > and developers' attitude to make my mind whether to use your program > as a base or to start my own one. Although the latter approach sounds > silly and egoistic, it has certain advantages, like I'd be able to > make a feature list *before* I write a single line of code, so that'd > help a lot in developing a program model; also, I'd probably use C++, > since it could make programming easy (I hate C++, but for some models > it may be of real help). > I remember I wrote a very similar letter to a very similar mailing list 4-5 years ago. What you have to remember is that the progress of a Free Software project depends on the relative desirability of pursuing that project vs. (for example) the desirability of sacking out on the couch and watching TV all night. Once you have made the project boring enough, you've basically killed it. > In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things > first: > May I suggest instead that you: 1) download the code 2) find something that you *know* you can improve upon 3) improve it 4) e-mail your changes to the coordinator 5) repeat from step 1 or 2 If you find that you can't get along with the coordinator, perhaps because he doesn't like your changes, you can always start your own project with the same source base (thats what the GPL is all about). Doug ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:07 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:30 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 11:23:57 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA01342 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26867 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:52 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24632 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:00:55 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24627 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:00:54 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16809 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:59:07 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-75-7.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.103]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00422 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:58:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zLUq2-0005XD-00; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:58:50 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: diff: configure.in and the guile libs. References: <19980923003524.A1114@cs.mu.oz.au> From: Rob Browning Date: 22 Sep 1998 10:58:50 -500 In-Reply-To: Tyson Dowd's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:35:24 +1000" Message-ID: <87af3sjg05.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 26 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Tyson Dowd writes: > There seems to be some problems with auto-configuring the exact > set of guile libraries (it appears to be installation dependent > whether guile actually uses libqthreads). Right. I just hacked up these tests. Given my relative inexperience with autoconf, I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something. It looks like your test is the same as mine, with -ldl and -lreadline added to the guile libs. I think perhaps those should be added as separate tests before the guile test. Also I think testing for a function we actually use would be a better idea. How about gh_enter? > PS I don't think it's very worthwhile keeping "configure" under CVS > -- it can change depending upon which version of autoconf you use to > create it. But if you were to remove it you would have to make sure > that it gets generated before you distribute .tar files (I usually > use a "make tar" target to do this). Anyway, the diff to > "configure" is included but is probably useless. I usually just send the configure.in diffs to Linas with a note to regenerate the configure script... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:43:09 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:31 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 11:24:02 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA01410 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:24:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26906 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:57 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA24328 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:54:06 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24324 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:54:05 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA14518 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:52:18 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-75-7.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.103]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00412 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:51:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zLUjN-0005WR-00; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:51:57 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <199809221145.GAA11282@mail.family-net.net> From: Rob Browning Date: 22 Sep 1998 10:51:57 -500 In-Reply-To: Doug Thayer's message of "Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:45:20 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87d88ojgbm.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Doug Thayer writes: > Ah, but with GNOME vs. KDE going on out there it was inevitable that > someone would contribute code for those two interfaces. The original *main* reason to start the GNOME port was to remove GnuCash's one non-free software dependency. If lesstif had worked just fine then, I wouldn't have even suggested considering it before doing a lot of other more useful work. FWIW -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:44 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:06 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 22 02:53:43 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id CAA23864 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:53:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05406 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:53:41 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA00484 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:49:11 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00480 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:49:10 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04099 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:49:09 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA08655; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:44:41 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id DAA25677; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:30:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199809220830.DAA25677@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more To: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:30:11 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: from "Alexander L. Belikoff" at Sep 21, 98 08:51:39 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi, I'll try to answer this note as well as I can. However, as I do so, please try to keep the following in mind: -- there are maybe 1-2 active developers at any given moment; many have come and gone over time but maybe 4 grand total who contributed in a significant way. (chronologically, Robin, myself, Jeremy, Rob). -- Nobody is paid to do work on this. No one works on this in the course of employment. I work on it evenings & weekends. -- I assume all responsibility for the state of affairs; I've written 1/2 or 2/3'rds of the code & design docs, I currenctly maintain the cvs tree. -- This is your project. If you don't like some aspect, fix it. That's the whole point of open source. You can't, shouldn't sit on your hands waiting for me or rob to fix something or add some feature. It's been rumoured that Alexander L. Belikoff said: > > > Hello everybody, > > I am very excited to see, there is an effort to create a personal > finance manager for GNU systems. ... > Regarding the GnuCash project... well... I'm a bit worried by three > facts (which are common for many open projects) > > 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project > development a bit fuzzy There's a stale project feature list at http://linas.org/linux/xacc/projects.html Help me fix it if you wish. There are desgin docs in various directories, there is a fair amount of docs in the various header files. The spec is in my head. The schedule is "when I feel like it", until more people contribute, in which case the schedule is "when they feel like it". > 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - > the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 > GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a > complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line > interface and then only one yet good GUI. The original code was in Motif; I continue to maintain the motif version. Jeremy comes along, and says "I want to do gtk" ... what am I supposed to say: "piss off, suck rocks, its motif forever"? Hardly a way to win collaborators ... so I said "Whatever, duuude", and he sent me functional gtk code. The Qt intrface is a similar story. > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > features etc. Hey, free speech. If you don't plan for the future, the future will pass you by. > In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things > first: > > 1. Making a feature list - a realistic one, so we could see *what* we > want from it. (~2 weeks) If you call it a "wish list", I am sure that we could somehow get it up onto the gnucash website, especially if it looks nice. > 2. Do some thinking on general model structure, programming guidelines > and data representation (~1 week) > > 3. Make a schedule, defining the order of features to implement - no > dates required. (a couple days) > > 4. Go writing the code :). I'd go for writing a new engine, first to > take advantage of the model designed, and second, to make sure the > implementation is done specifically for this project, and is not > some other program incorporated into it. However, most of useful > stuff and algorithms in the existing code must be reused. Why do you want to write a new engine? You can't complain about there being three gui's, and then implying its OK to have two engines without clearly articulating why a new engine is needed. Many people have talked about and sql engine; there are good reasons to have an sql engine. But to duplicate what's here already, but change all the routine names, that would be folly. > 5. Once the engine is done, GUI wizards will start their job. :-) I > don't want to start a flame war, but I think having one GUI is > enough - this would prevent duplicating of effort. I personally > (again - my *personal* opinion) would favor Gtk for many reasons: > open license, non-proprietary implementation, Gnome compliance. The gtk version has fallen into disrepair because the gtk maintainer is not maintaining it. But there are also some serious technical reasons holding gtk back, primarily to do with the (lack of a suitable) table widget. > This is what I think about the project. I am personally interested in > having this program reliable and useful, so I could drop my Quicken > and have my finance caressed in my favorite system. :-) > > I'd love to hear your opinion and of course explanations of the points > I may be missing. I strongly encourage anyone and everyone to help in whatever way possible, even if its just an email discussion of how things should be. But in the end, this is a volunteer project, and is driven only by the motivations of the volunteers. The organizational metaphor & dynamics is similar to any sort of community service or other voluntary organization: the only work that gets done is by the people who are doing it, and the people who are doing it get to make all of the decisions on how it gets done. There is no way of forcing anyone into doing anything; but maybe one can grease the wheels with "pleases" and "thank yous", and incite visions of fame, recognition, a chance to learn, the tonic of hard work, the satisfaction of accomplishment. Hey, if I was good at getting more people to do more better work, I would. You tell me what the magic is of getting people to volunteer, I'll go for it. --linas > > Cheers, > > -- > Alexander L. Belikoff > Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. > abel@bfr.co.il > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ > The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and > put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:39 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:20:02 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 21 19:36:01 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id TAA10828 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:36:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24632 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:35:59 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06805 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:35:12 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06801 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:35:10 -0500 Received: from ruacad.runet.edu (muselab.runet.edu [137.45.33.100]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24371 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:35:10 -0500 Received: from aron (ruppp218.runet.edu [137.45.10.218]) by ruacad.runet.edu (8.8.7/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA01448 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:35:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aron Smith" To: "GnuCash Mailing List" Subject: RE: questions, ravings, and more Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:36:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bde5c1$11771e70$020a0a0a@aron.runet.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > As a collateral to what I've said, let's consider services for > business finace management (something similar to Quicken/Office, > QuickBooks). Although it sounds very tempting to provide a solution > for both personal and business usage, I'd rather have two different > programs. Yes, they will share some portion of the code. But this > would give us two realistic projects instead of one fantastic. We should target the regular home-user. Individuals are far more likely to do their finances on Linux. This would tend to maximize the potential user base, which will in the long run, determine the viability of any application. > finally move my accounts to Linux. This simple phrase summarizes what I say to myself every time I finish updating my own accounts in Q98. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:37 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:59 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 21 17:40:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA11910 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:40:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20014 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:40:10 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA31474 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:36:22 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA31470 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:36:21 -0500 Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19221 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:36:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA21608; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:35:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Alexander L. Belikoff" cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On 21 Sep 1998, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: > 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project > development a bit fuzzy > > 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - > the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 > GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a > complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line > interface and then only one yet good GUI. I'll agree that 3 GUI implementations are excessive but I don't agree that there is such a thing as too much attention too early. A vast majority of software usability problems come from not enough attention too late. If you don't have a crystal clear picture of how the program is going to be used, you don't have good guidance as to what functionality you need to build when you get into the guts of the system. Regardless, it isn't clear to me that there is enough focus on the interface and functional requirements, witness great debates about things like.... > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > features etc. ...which follows from your first point. -john ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:36 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:59 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 21 17:12:19 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA26243 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:12:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12047 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:12:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA30086 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:10:14 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30082 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:10:13 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11186 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:10:10 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13900; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:10:10 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13764; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:10:11 +0200 To: "Aron Smith" Cc: Subject: Re: questions, ravings, and more References: <000001bde59c$6524eea0$020a0a0a@aron.runet.edu> From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 22 Sep 1998 00:10:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Aron Smith"'s message of "Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:14:11 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 67 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 "Aron Smith" writes: > > This is probably the worst problem. I think GnuCash should not try to be > new and inventive. Large corporations have spent millions of dollars > developing financial management programs, and GnuCash should probably just > copy one of them as closely as possible. This way of thinking isn't always > popular, but it tends to result in a system that people will recognize and > *use*. Exactly. Money management techniques are still the same, and if we scratch Quicken/DOS, Quicken 99, and MS Money - we'll find the very same services, the only difference will be in the fanciness of the GUI and similar tricks. Please don't misunderstand me: I *don't* suggest *duplicating* one of the commercial products - instead, we have to make a one, similar in features, so that people could use it. > > > > > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > > features etc. > > Amen. However, while these features might not be in early releases, they > should be considered early on so that the program is easily modified later > on to accept the new paradigm. As a collateral to what I've said, let's consider services for business finace management (something similar to Quicken/Office, QuickBooks). Although it sounds very tempting to provide a solution for both personal and business usage, I'd rather have two different programs. Yes, they will share some portion of the code. But this would give us two realistic projects instead of one fantastic. > > This is where I believe we should look at MS Money 98, and Quicken 98 for > some structure, not neccessarily to "copy" them, but to make sure we are not > leaving out some basic functions. If anyone needs a copy of either program > email me (arjsmith@runet.edu). Honest, I am not going to support or even agree with the last proposal. :-) Yet I do agree with an idea of looking at the commercial programs, that have *much* more experience, than we do (don't forget - there is *A LOT* of competition between Quicken and Money on the market and both programs do their best to cater to users' tastes). I for one have purchased a copy of Quicken 99 Basic (it was $5 more than MS Money, but I don't want to support Microsoft). I'll keep using it as my personal finance manager, until I get to the stage (either participating in GnuCash or developing a program on my own) when I can finally move my accounts to Linux. > > I don't know what kind of response you will get from the current developers, > but I agree with most of what you've said here... perhaps we will both be > flamed off the list, but I hope not. I don't think so. After all, we all pursue the same goal: to give people a way to manage their money under the operating system of the future. :-) -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:34 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:57 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 21 15:13:59 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id PAA13754 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:13:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05343 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:13:57 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20743 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:13:10 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20738 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:13:08 -0500 Received: from ruacad.runet.edu (ruacad.runet.edu [137.45.128.4]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05026 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:13:06 -0500 Received: from aron (ruppp218.runet.edu [137.45.10.218]) by ruacad.runet.edu (8.8.7/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA28392 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:12:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aron Smith" To: Subject: RE: questions, ravings, and more Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:14:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bde59c$6524eea0$020a0a0a@aron.runet.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 I have been lurking on this list for a week or so myself and I'm glad to see someone put into words what I have been thinking. I have not been developing this product myself, so I have no standing and did not wish to offend anyone. However what you've said is interesting and below are my comments/opinions about them. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > [mailto:owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org]On Behalf Of Alexander L. > Belikoff > Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 2:52 PM > To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > Subject: questions, ravings, and more > > > > Hello everybody, > > I am very excited to see, there is an effort to create a personal > finance manager for GNU systems. > > Since not long time ago, I've been considering writing such a program. > Yes I am aware of Xacc, Xinvest, and Xfinans. However, neither of them > is good enough to be seriously considered as the one. Initially, I > thought about writing such a program in Guile and using guile-gtk as a > GUI. However, after some reading on Quicken and MS Money, I'd > realized, that Scheme may not be the best language for such a project, > whereas C++ probably would - the concepts of accounts and transactions > map into a C++ object model really well. Looking at the Xacc engine > proved it - what we have there is basically a C++ in C. > > Regarding the GnuCash project... well... I'm a bit worried by three > facts (which are common for many open projects) > > 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project > development a bit fuzzy This is probably the worst problem. I think GnuCash should not try to be new and inventive. Large corporations have spent millions of dollars developing financial management programs, and GnuCash should probably just copy one of them as closely as possible. This way of thinking isn't always popular, but it tends to result in a system that people will recognize and *use*. I have used Quicken since the DOS version and to be honest, that old ANSI color text interface of Quicken will *still* do 95% of the functions I need. Quicken98 is prettier and has more bells, perhaps the fine folks that develop GnuCash should consider a using Quicken98 as a template to build features. I have also used MS-Money98 and it is also quite good. So while it isn't glamorous to copy these programs (at least the common day-to-day functions) it will result in a larger base of possible users. Quicken98 is the killer app that keeps me using NT. That and Outlook98, but I can probably use something else for contacts in linux. > > 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - > the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 > GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a > complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line > interface and then only one yet good GUI. This problem is a natural side-effect of the 1st problem. > > 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw > attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a > monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine > features etc. Amen. However, while these features might not be in early releases, they should be considered early on so that the program is easily modified later on to accept the new paradigm. > > Please don't consider me a whiner, I'm just expressing my concerns on > the project. Besides, I'm trying to get an idea of the project state > and developers' attitude to make my mind whether to use your program > as a base or to start my own one. Although the latter approach sounds > silly and egoistic, it has certain advantages, like I'd be able to > make a feature list *before* I write a single line of code, so that'd > help a lot in developing a program model; also, I'd probably use C++, > since it could make programming easy (I hate C++, but for some models > it may be of real help). > > In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things > first: > > 1. Making a feature list - a realistic one, so we could see *what* we > want from it. (~2 weeks) > This is where I believe we should look at MS Money 98, and Quicken 98 for some structure, not neccessarily to "copy" them, but to make sure we are not leaving out some basic functions. If anyone needs a copy of either program email me (arjsmith@runet.edu). > 2. Do some thinking on general model structure, programming guidelines > and data representation (~1 week) > > 3. Make a schedule, defining the order of features to implement - no > dates required. (a couple days) > > 4. Go writing the code :). I'd go for writing a new engine, first to > take advantage of the model designed, and second, to make sure the > implementation is done specifically for this project, and is not > some other program incorporated into it. However, most of useful > stuff and algorithms in the existing code must be reused. No GUI > work should be done on this stage, but the model must be aware of > GUI existance, that is it should provide GUI-friendly API. > > 5. Once the engine is done, GUI wizards will start their job. :-) I > don't want to start a flame war, but I think having one GUI is > enough - this would prevent duplicating of effort. I personally > (again - my *personal* opinion) would favor Gtk for many reasons: > open license, non-proprietary implementation, Gnome compliance. > Definitely just one GUI. These projects can be very prone to splintering and then there is duplication of effort. Development is usually much faster in projects where people will continue on the the same path even if they disagree with certain decisions (ex: Linux kernel). > This is what I think about the project. I am personally interested in > having this program reliable and useful, so I could drop my Quicken > and have my finance caressed in my favorite system. :-) > > I'd love to hear your opinion and of course explanations of the points > I may be missing. > > Cheers, I don't know what kind of response you will get from the current developers, but I agree with most of what you've said here... perhaps we will both be flamed off the list, but I hope not. I am new to this list and this application, but I firmly believe this product (esp. after all the consolodation) has the potential to fill a huge gap in coverage for the everyday user. Sorry my first post to this list is such a long one, and if I'm way off base... be gentle. Thanks, Aron Smith arjsmith@runet.edu ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:33 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:55 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 21 13:53:13 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id NAA26111 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08857 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:53:11 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14713 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:51:43 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14709 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:51:42 -0500 Received: from buster.bfr.co.il ([192.116.142.129]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08449 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:51:41 -0500 Received: from vermis.bfr.co.il (vermis.bfr.co.il [128.253.154.43]) by buster.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12709 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:51:39 +0200 Received: (from abel@localhost) by vermis.bfr.co.il (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12673; Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:51:39 +0200 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: questions, ravings, and more From: abel@bfr.co.il (Alexander L. Belikoff) Date: 21 Sep 1998 20:51:39 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 82 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.22/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hello everybody, I am very excited to see, there is an effort to create a personal finance manager for GNU systems. Since not long time ago, I've been considering writing such a program. Yes I am aware of Xacc, Xinvest, and Xfinans. However, neither of them is good enough to be seriously considered as the one. Initially, I thought about writing such a program in Guile and using guile-gtk as a GUI. However, after some reading on Quicken and MS Money, I'd realized, that Scheme may not be the best language for such a project, whereas C++ probably would - the concepts of accounts and transactions map into a C++ object model really well. Looking at the Xacc engine proved it - what we have there is basically a C++ in C. Regarding the GnuCash project... well... I'm a bit worried by three facts (which are common for many open projects) 1. No clear spec and feature schedule, thus making the project development a bit fuzzy 2. Too much attention to the GUI at a very early development stage - the GnuCash engine is very incomplete, however, there are already 3 GUI implementations, also far from being perfect. I'd rather see a complete, versatile, and stable engine with a command-line interface and then only one yet good GUI. 3. Various "cool" ideas, that are not vital for the project, but draw attention - CORBA facilities etc. Not only they make the program a monster, but they divert attention from real goals - like engine features etc. Please don't consider me a whiner, I'm just expressing my concerns on the project. Besides, I'm trying to get an idea of the project state and developers' attitude to make my mind whether to use your program as a base or to start my own one. Although the latter approach sounds silly and egoistic, it has certain advantages, like I'd be able to make a feature list *before* I write a single line of code, so that'd help a lot in developing a program model; also, I'd probably use C++, since it could make programming easy (I hate C++, but for some models it may be of real help). In case I join your project, I'd suggest doing the following things first: 1. Making a feature list - a realistic one, so we could see *what* we want from it. (~2 weeks) 2. Do some thinking on general model structure, programming guidelines and data representation (~1 week) 3. Make a schedule, defining the order of features to implement - no dates required. (a couple days) 4. Go writing the code :). I'd go for writing a new engine, first to take advantage of the model designed, and second, to make sure the implementation is done specifically for this project, and is not some other program incorporated into it. However, most of useful stuff and algorithms in the existing code must be reused. No GUI work should be done on this stage, but the model must be aware of GUI existance, that is it should provide GUI-friendly API. 5. Once the engine is done, GUI wizards will start their job. :-) I don't want to start a flame war, but I think having one GUI is enough - this would prevent duplicating of effort. I personally (again - my *personal* opinion) would favor Gtk for many reasons: open license, non-proprietary implementation, Gnome compliance. This is what I think about the project. I am personally interested in having this program reliable and useful, so I could drop my Quicken and have my finance caressed in my favorite system. :-) I'd love to hear your opinion and of course explanations of the points I may be missing. Cheers, -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. / BFM Financial Research Ltd. abel@bfr.co.il ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:30 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:53 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 20 22:19:33 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA24621 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:19:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05137 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:19:31 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29051 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:16:17 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29042 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:16:01 -0500 Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04320 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:15:56 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05982 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:11:33 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id WAA17366 for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:56:31 -0500 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:56:31 -0500 From: Linas Vepstas Message-Id: <199809210356.WAA17366@shadygrove.linas.org> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: ANNOUNCE: Multiple Currency Support Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On a whim, based on earlier requests and a recent email, I've done some hacking to add multiple currency support to gnucash. For some crazy reason, I thought I could do it in an afternoon (since currencies are a lot like stocks). A few afternoons later, I am not done. Most of the structure is there, its just that it doesn't quite work right. This code is now in the latest CVS tree. I really would appreciate the involvement of some europeans who might/could be motivated to add the various touches & grace notes & bug fixes to make this work right. Currently, even the relativeely minor touch of printing the right currency symbol for european currencies doesn't work. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:20 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:42 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 17 22:59:16 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA18353 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:59:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28754 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:59:14 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA14430 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:55:45 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14422 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:55:42 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26813 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:54:55 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA31967; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:50:42 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id XAA27883; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:34:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199809180434.XAA27883@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: killer bug & version 1.1.18 To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:34:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87iuin5mvs.fsf@raven.localhost> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 17, 98 00:28:07 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > Linas Vepstas writes: > > > Next person to find a killer bug will win a free download of version > > 1.1.19 > > Looks like all my problems with the reconcile window are fixed. Are > you still working on the "self-referential" transactions, or do they > work for you now? I've still got the problem here. I still have to > keep redirecting one end of a single-line transaction after I create > it... Oh. Well, you can direct it from the very beging by picking something in the combo box before hitting "commit", but your right, if nothing is specified, I guess it should be ok to leave it blank. Actually, this is syupposed to be a user-settable flag, part of the "do/don't force double-entry" set of config flags ... --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:22 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:44 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Sep 18 01:47:32 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA12377 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:47:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09557 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:47:30 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA22429 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:46:58 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22425 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:46:57 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09499 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:46:56 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-66-9.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.137]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04097 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:46:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zJuJZ-0001bY-00; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:46:45 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: killer bug & version 1.1.18 References: <199809180434.XAA27883@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 18 Sep 1998 01:46:45 -500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:34:20 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <873e9p5356.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Oh. Well, you can direct it from the very beging by picking > something in the combo box before hitting "commit", but your right, > if nothing is specified, I guess it should be ok to leave it blank. I am puttin a value in the combo-box, but it still does the self-referential transaction thing when the register is in single-line mode. I end up with two entries in the current register one +$X and one -$X. Both have a transfer from field containing the current account. If I go back and redirect the first one (if it's a payment), or the second one (if it's a receipt) then everything's fine. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:44:40 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:22:02 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 24 11:56:05 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA06179 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:56:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21253 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:56:01 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09140 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:46:16 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09135 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:46:14 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org ([194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18939 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:46:11 -0500 Received: from Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net (dialwin124.moving-people.net [195.38.156.124] (may be forged)) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA03327; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:44:39 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer To: linas@linas.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:52:59 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98091714315000.00345@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, you wrote: >Hi, hi! >OK, reading this lights up several different lightbulbs as to how it will >plug together. So here are some alternatives: > >(A) "All Plugins have an Engine API" Design. > In this design, all plugins implement a split, transaction, account, > account-group classes. Thus, data can be transfered from one to > another simply by copying it. > > >(B) "There is only One Engine, and All Plugins Use It" Design. > This is kind of what the current relationship between the FileIO, the > QIFImport, the GUI and the engine are. The current "FileIO" class > knows how to rip stuff out of the engine API, and write it to a file, > or equivalently, it knows how to read a file, and make API calls to > stuff it into the engine. Ditto for QIF Import. Even the GUI works > this way: it asks the engine about splits & etc. and displays them, > alternately, it stuffs things into the engine too. > >I think (B) is the mental model I have been holding when talking about >perl/guile extensions: they would just be programs that know about the >engine and know how to call it's API. > > >But when I think about SQL, I tend to think of an "SQL Engine" as in the >first design -- the SQL engine would have to implement the classes Account, >Transaction, Split, etc. However, its not at all obvious that the current >engine API is sufficient to be a wrapper around an SQL back end. > >So maybe design point (A) can also be called "all plugins are back-ends" >design point. > >So my question to you: which of these models are you thinking of? Both? >Neither? a Mixture? i thought of model (B), there is only one engine that manages runtime data, but to store and read it it uses the i/o-plugins that handle the data in a very abstract way, ie they know only as much about it as absolutely necessary so changes of data representation only affects the engine and not the plugins (in most cases). nevertheless i would say that they are backend since they do not need an ui. necessary addresses/file names can be obtained in a standardized way through the application. it could work with the corba persistence framework if i remember right (i have not worked with it for some time now) and the GNOME VFS. i think (A) also makes it difficult to ensure data consistency along all the engines that have to work together. > >> In this system of course there is one big problem: How to map the data obtained >> from a source to the accounts. If you read it from your account group file of >> course you have account ids and account name, but if you read from www stock >> quotes or MetaStock data or online banking interfaces that is not that simple; >> and it also has to work the other way round. So we need a >> >> - GcDataMapper > >This I don't understand. With Model A, all back ends implement split, >tranasaction, account, etc api's, so moving data from one back end to >another is a simple matter of copying, and there is no mapping to be done. > >With Model B, each data source knows about the engine API and thus knows >what calls to make to get data stuffed into the engine. > >So what are we mapping, from where to where? > >> class that has at least two methods gcFindAccounts and gcFindSources. Both get a >> >> - GcMapInfo >> >> struct as parameter that contains information on how to find the account or the >> source. Both return a vector of GcMapInfos that contain information about >> the matches. When you call gcFindAccounts you normally fill the fields with data >> like the banking account number, REUTERS codes etc. and the method returns a >> list of accounts that could match. > >OK, Maybe now I understand ... Your saying that to update e.g. the >IBM stock price in my accounts, I go to reuters, but to update e.g. >my compaq stock prices, I got to www.schwab.com. So it just stores info >about how I want to hook data sources into my data. > >right? > in a certain way, yes... >> Reverse mapping is what gcFindSources is for. There you >> fill the GcMapInfo with the things like accountId, account name, comments etc. >> and the GcDataMapper tries to find (with the help of its registry if there is >> already some data available) some sources (e.g. quotes web pages, online banking >> interfaces, company web pages etc.) and the IO plugins for this account. Again >> user help could be involved the first time or later again if the user wants to >> modify the matches. How to actually do the mapping is job of the GcDataMapper, >> it could use regexp libraries etc. The most simple implementation would to be a >> simple user query where the user has to find the matches. > >Well, sometoimes you talk about mappers as if they were static storage of >what acounts I have hooked to which data sources. But then later you seem >to talk about them as if they were these dynamic things that are trying to >guess what you want your data sources and sinks are. ... I think we need >both, I am not sure both functions should be handlesd by the same class ... > >Note, BTW, that recurring transactions could be treated as a "source" >of a kind. ok (second try, first time i tried to explain this my mail program crashed shortly after i have finished.... perhaps explanation was a little bit too confusing :) ) when i have an account called "Silicon Graphics stocks" and I want to obtain stock quotes from the web i have to find a web page where to get them from. when i have a plug in for that i could deliver it with a database containing some addresses for stock quotes for REUTERS-code "SGI" (or in Germany we have the very easy-to-remember six-digit numbers, eg 872981 for SGI), this database will be appended to the data mapper database. but now we have to find out that "SGI" is what we are searching for, this is the mapper doing with eg regexp. he now find "SGI" beside some other sources, now the user could select the one(s) he wants. the mapper stores the selection so he can do this automatically in the future and also in reverse. if the quotes plugin has a cron-mechanism to update some selected quotes every 1.5 seconds, the data mapper knows where the "SGI" data goes to now. the same with online banking: map the accountId/-name on the bank code/account number etc. when i have a remittance and get accountId/-name when there comes in a bank statement. so the mapper is a kind of "dynamic linking" mechnism (with memory, so a little bit static, too, yes) to allow the engine to search and parametrize the necessary plugins and to find out what to do with the data they deliver. > >> A second type would be the >> >> - GcReportPlugIn >> >> that is used for report generation/data analyzing. A report interface that >> generates HTML code (that can then be translated to SGML, PS, TeX etc. via an >> additional tool) is proposed on the developers web page. So I would propose an >> ui that is an HTML designer, very much like a wordprocessor or the Mathematica >> frontend, and include automatically generated reports (tables for account >> balances, graphs etc) with a reserved HTML keyword that also allows you to >> specify some layout parameters like size and position. When the document finally >> is generated, a parser calls for every of these keywords the appropriate report >> plugin and replaces it with the output of the plugin (that has to be pure HTML >> code with embedded images etc.). Chaining of report plug ins could be helpful, >> e.g. first filter stock quotes from noise with a plugin before they are used in >> a technical analysis tool. > >I guess I don't understand why this needs to be thjought of as a plug-in at >all. What possible common API could these different reporting mechanisms >have in common? they first of all have to have a kind of string gcMakeReport(string params); method that gets the parameters stored in the HTML command (e.g. accoundId, data range, graph type etc., this has to be obtained through dialogs that are maintained by the plugin itself, this is why i have said i do not know how to make plugins toolkit-independent) and returns the generated HTML-code. they have to have a second method to display this dialog. they have to have the general plug-in mechanism that allows to find and load GnuCash corba plugins. if plugins are chainable the gcMakeReport has to be modified/extended that they get can get an account(-group) as input and return a new, modified account(-group) that could be then input for a second plugin (eg the one that finally creates the HTML-code) > > >> Additionally I would introduce a class >> >> - GcRegistry >> >> that is used to store some metadata that is used by e.g. plug ins or the user >> interface. Since there is in my eyes need for two different classes of metadata, >> global and account-group related one, I would give GcAccountGroup as well as >> GcEngine a gcGetRegistry method that returns the local and the global registry >> object. The registry can store its data in the account database and (global >> data) in the config file in the user's root directory. An example for global >> metadata of my plugin would be a database of all REUTERS codes of stocks >> available, in the local registry (the account-group related one) the plug in can >> save e.g. what codes have been selected to be updated etc. An ui could store >> general options (e.g. user preferences) in the global registry and e.g. last >> position of windows in the local registry. > >Registery sounds like a dumping ground to me ... yes, perhaps it is like all configuration files tend to be one, and it is thought to be a mechanism to manage/store settings > >> GcSplit should be an abstract class whose functionality can be implemented >> in derived concrete classes, e.g. for simple money transfers, buy of securities >> (which will be further divided in stocks, futures, bonds) etc. > >This makes me nervous because the GUI needs to be able to call methods >to get info from a split. I'm concerned about making the gui try to >understand that there are different derived classes of splits. The logic >in the gui is nasty enough already (and this is after I spent 6 months >"simplifying" it). ok, but on the other hand i think there has to be a mechanism to store these special values like daily volume, call/put warrant parameters, future parameters etc. they are very important for analysing the markets/stocks. > >> Assigned with >> every GcSplit is a >> >> - GcCurrency >> >> object that represents the currency of the transaction and that can be used to >> compute the value of the other split. E.g. if in Germany I buy stocks at the >> NYSE the price is in dollar, but my account is in DEM so the value of the split >> there will be the value of the stock-split multiplied with the GcCurrency value. > >No, I claim that is not at all what you did. In fact, first you used DM to >buy dollars, and then you used dollars to buy stock. You should set up >your accounts so that you have a currency trading account, and a stock >trading account. > >I think that the current gnucash is powerful enough to do this today, >or almost enough with a few tweaks. One of the things its missing is >ability to print something other than $ sign all over the place. The >other is a saftey check that would prevent you from accidentally >transferring DM into a $ account without forcing you to declare an exchange >rate. But I think this could be easy to do. yes, you are right. so forget this GcCurrency. > >> One GcSplit subclass is GcComment that can store general data like company >> statements. Since this could be data that affects more than one account (e.g. >> general economical data), it is stored centralized and the GcComment object in >> the different accounts only point on this data. GcSplit subclasses that >> represent any type of securities will have to have additional fields, e.g. to >> store maturities, volume (for special price quotes) etc. > >All splits now have an (unused) extra field for storing arbitrary info. >That info should be marked up with mime types; key-value pairs should >be URL-encoded. This would make this auxiliiary data be machine-readable, >and/or viewable with a mail browser (i.e. would look like email >"attachements"). interesting idea > > >> _____________________________- END >> >> this are some rough proposals on how to design a corba engine for GnuCash. i > >I like the discussion; I'm not sure that it has anything at all to do with >corba. To me, it sounds like a general discussion of internal API's; that >discussion is quite distint from when/how/if any of these internal API's >should be corbafied, (or swigged, for that matter). i think it is a general discussion about how to map (oh, this mapping thing again :/ ) ) the engine and a plugin mechanism on an object model. > >Lets continue this discussion. > >--linas regards stephan ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:09 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:31 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 17 00:05:37 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA05922 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:05:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22557 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:05:36 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04112 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:03:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04107 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:03:38 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21792 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:03:36 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29365; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:59:33 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA21902; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:42:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199809170542.AAA21902@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II To: s_lichtenauer@muenchen.org (Stephan Lichtenauer) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:42:40 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <98091512122302.00211@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> from "Stephan Lichtenauer" at Sep 15, 98 10:40:21 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi, Well, this took some digesting. It's been rumoured that Stephan Lichtenauer said: > > DESIGN PROPOSAL (ROUGH OUTLINE) > ----------------------------- > > Engine > -------- > > Split the existing engine in the following classes: > > - GcAccountGroup > - GcAccount > - GcSplit > - GcTransaction > - GcEngine > These five classes first of all simply use the design already used in the > engine. GcEngine, that's analogous to what is the brand new Query class? > In the design outline on the webpage a transparent mechanism to read data from > different sources is proposed. I would realize this completely with plug in > objects. So I would introduce > > - GcPlugIn > > to be the base class of all plug ins. How to make plugins independent from ui > toolkits (GTK, QT/KDE), I do not know since they will need an ui in many cases. > > - GcIOPlugIn > > is derived from it and will be the base class for all i/o plugins, e.g. > GcIOXacc, GcIOQif, GcIOSql, GcIOOnlineBanking, GcIOReadWww (yeah, my plugin!) > etc. Since some of the media is non-persistent, ie it is not sure if you will > get the data again in the future (e.g. from web pages), GcIOPlugIn has a method > gcIsPersistentMedia that returns FALSE in such cases. Then the data obtained > from this source can be copied to a persistent media (e.g. the SQL database). > > One example: > You make a bank transfer in your account. The data is written to the > GcIOOnlineBanking object that uses the WWW-interface of your bank to give the > data to your bank. Then it reads the state of the transfer (via an online > request to your bank account balance) what will then appear in your account. > Possibly the GcIOOnlineBanking plugin is not persistent, i.e. you will not get a > full track of all of your transactions of the past via online banking, then the > data is stored locally (e.g. via GcIOPlugInXacc). OK, reading this lights up several different lightbulbs as to how it will plug together. So here are some alternatives: (A) "All Plugins have an Engine API" Design. In this design, all plugins implement a split, transaction, account, account-group classes. Thus, data can be transfered from one to another simply by copying it. (B) "There is only One Engine, and All Plugins Use It" Design. This is kind of what the current relationship between the FileIO, the QIFImport, the GUI and the engine are. The current "FileIO" class knows how to rip stuff out of the engine API, and write it to a file, or equivalently, it knows how to read a file, and make API calls to stuff it into the engine. Ditto for QIF Import. Even the GUI works this way: it asks the engine about splits & etc. and displays them, alternately, it stuffs things into the engine too. I think (B) is the mental model I have been holding when talking about perl/guile extensions: they would just be programs that know about the engine and know how to call it's API. But when I think about SQL, I tend to think of an "SQL Engine" as in the first design -- the SQL engine would have to implement the classes Account, Transaction, Split, etc. However, its not at all obvious that the current engine API is sufficient to be a wrapper around an SQL back end. So maybe design point (A) can also be called "all plugins are back-ends" design point. So my question to you: which of these models are you thinking of? Both? Neither? a Mixture? > In this system of course there is one big problem: How to map the data obtained > from a source to the accounts. If you read it from your account group file of > course you have account ids and account name, but if you read from www stock > quotes or MetaStock data or online banking interfaces that is not that simple; > and it also has to work the other way round. So we need a > > - GcDataMapper This I don't understand. With Model A, all back ends implement split, tranasaction, account, etc api's, so moving data from one back end to another is a simple matter of copying, and there is no mapping to be done. With Model B, each data source knows about the engine API and thus knows what calls to make to get data stuffed into the engine. So what are we mapping, from where to where? > class that has at least two methods gcFindAccounts and gcFindSources. Both get a > > - GcMapInfo > > struct as parameter that contains information on how to find the account or the > source. Both return a vector of GcMapInfos that contain information about > the matches. When you call gcFindAccounts you normally fill the fields with data > like the banking account number, REUTERS codes etc. and the method returns a > list of accounts that could match. OK, Maybe now I understand ... Your saying that to update e.g. the IBM stock price in my accounts, I go to reuters, but to update e.g. my compaq stock prices, I got to www.schwab.com. So it just stores info about how I want to hook data sources into my data. right? > Reverse mapping is what gcFindSources is for. There you > fill the GcMapInfo with the things like accountId, account name, comments etc. > and the GcDataMapper tries to find (with the help of its registry if there is > already some data available) some sources (e.g. quotes web pages, online banking > interfaces, company web pages etc.) and the IO plugins for this account. Again > user help could be involved the first time or later again if the user wants to > modify the matches. How to actually do the mapping is job of the GcDataMapper, > it could use regexp libraries etc. The most simple implementation would to be a > simple user query where the user has to find the matches. Well, sometoimes you talk about mappers as if they were static storage of what acounts I have hooked to which data sources. But then later you seem to talk about them as if they were these dynamic things that are trying to guess what you want your data sources and sinks are. ... I think we need both, I am not sure both functions should be handlesd by the same class ... Note, BTW, that recurring transactions could be treated as a "source" of a kind. > A second type would be the > > - GcReportPlugIn > > that is used for report generation/data analyzing. A report interface that > generates HTML code (that can then be translated to SGML, PS, TeX etc. via an > additional tool) is proposed on the developers web page. So I would propose an > ui that is an HTML designer, very much like a wordprocessor or the Mathematica > frontend, and include automatically generated reports (tables for account > balances, graphs etc) with a reserved HTML keyword that also allows you to > specify some layout parameters like size and position. When the document finally > is generated, a parser calls for every of these keywords the appropriate report > plugin and replaces it with the output of the plugin (that has to be pure HTML > code with embedded images etc.). Chaining of report plug ins could be helpful, > e.g. first filter stock quotes from noise with a plugin before they are used in > a technical analysis tool. I guess I don't understand why this needs to be thjought of as a plug-in at all. What possible common API could these different reporting mechanisms have in common? > Additionally I would introduce a class > > - GcRegistry > > that is used to store some metadata that is used by e.g. plug ins or the user > interface. Since there is in my eyes need for two different classes of metadata, > global and account-group related one, I would give GcAccountGroup as well as > GcEngine a gcGetRegistry method that returns the local and the global registry > object. The registry can store its data in the account database and (global > data) in the config file in the user's root directory. An example for global > metadata of my plugin would be a database of all REUTERS codes of stocks > available, in the local registry (the account-group related one) the plug in can > save e.g. what codes have been selected to be updated etc. An ui could store > general options (e.g. user preferences) in the global registry and e.g. last > position of windows in the local registry. Registery sounds like a dumping ground to me ... > GcSplit should be an abstract class whose functionality can be implemented > in derived concrete classes, e.g. for simple money transfers, buy of securities > (which will be further divided in stocks, futures, bonds) etc. This makes me nervous because the GUI needs to be able to call methods to get info from a split. I'm concerned about making the gui try to understand that there are different derived classes of splits. The logic in the gui is nasty enough already (and this is after I spent 6 months "simplifying" it). > Assigned with > every GcSplit is a > > - GcCurrency > > object that represents the currency of the transaction and that can be used to > compute the value of the other split. E.g. if in Germany I buy stocks at the > NYSE the price is in dollar, but my account is in DEM so the value of the split > there will be the value of the stock-split multiplied with the GcCurrency value. No, I claim that is not at all what you did. In fact, first you used DM to buy dollars, and then you used dollars to buy stock. You should set up your accounts so that you have a currency trading account, and a stock trading account. I think that the current gnucash is powerful enough to do this today, or almost enough with a few tweaks. One of the things its missing is ability to print something other than $ sign all over the place. The other is a saftey check that would prevent you from accidentally transferring DM into a $ account without forcing you to declare an exchange rate. But I think this could be easy to do. > One GcSplit subclass is GcComment that can store general data like company > statements. Since this could be data that affects more than one account (e.g. > general economical data), it is stored centralized and the GcComment object in > the different accounts only point on this data. GcSplit subclasses that > represent any type of securities will have to have additional fields, e.g. to > store maturities, volume (for special price quotes) etc. All splits now have an (unused) extra field for storing arbitrary info. That info should be marked up with mime types; key-value pairs should be URL-encoded. This would make this auxiliiary data be machine-readable, and/or viewable with a mail browser (i.e. would look like email "attachements"). > _____________________________- END > > this are some rough proposals on how to design a corba engine for GnuCash. i I like the discussion; I'm not sure that it has anything at all to do with corba. To me, it sounds like a general discussion of internal API's; that discussion is quite distint from when/how/if any of these internal API's should be corbafied, (or swigged, for that matter). Lets continue this discussion. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:07 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:30 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 22:31:40 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA25098 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA30942 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:31:39 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA31663 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:30:15 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA31657 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:30:13 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA30521 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:30:13 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA14953; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA10437; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809170329.XAA10437@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:55:39 CDT." <199809170255.VAA20712@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:29:29 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > In other parts of the banking world there has been talk of writing win95 > viruses that hijack netscape while it is ssl-attached to an on-line banking > or stock-trading site ... mmm ... Fundamentally, if you are running Win95, you have no security. None. Zip. Zero. Anybody who runs Win95 and depends on it for any level of security at all is doomed, I tell you, doomed... We're talking about grown-up operating systems, where security is possible and hijacking running processes at least somewhat difficult... :') _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:05 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:28 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 21:37:55 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA25990 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:37:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15592 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:37:55 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28313 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:36:05 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28307 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:36:04 -0500 Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15294 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:36:05 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA29183 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:32:02 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id WAA21423 for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:15:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:15:12 -0500 From: Linas Vepstas Message-Id: <199809170315.WAA21423@shadygrove.linas.org> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: killer bug & version 1.1.18 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Rob was the first to find a killer bug in gnucash version 1.1.17: the transfer-from pulldown menu acted weired out in many cases. This seemed to me to be a confusing enough situation that it qualified as a killer bug. Now fixed (it required changing one byte of source code), the newest version is 1.1.18, available on the usual bat channel. Next person to find a killer bug will win a free download of version 1.1.19 --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:05 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:27 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 21:25:43 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA19006 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:25:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12228 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:25:12 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27251 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:16:34 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27247 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:16:33 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09876 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:16:34 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA29119; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:12:31 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id VAA20712; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:55:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199809170255.VAA20712@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: mellon@hoffman.vix.com (Ted Lemon) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:55:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: perry@piermont.com, linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809161552.LAA06333@andare.fugue.com> from "Ted Lemon" at Sep 16, 98 11:52:39 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Ted Lemon said: > > > Actually, SSL protects nicely against hijacks (at least in most ways > > -- you can't forge data, although you do not get protection against > > forged TCP control messages, especially RSTs.) > > If you can hijack the process with the key and the open session, you > can do whatever you want. I just don't think this is the attack we > need to be most concerned about right now. > > _MelloN_ In other parts of the banking world there has been talk of writing win95 viruses that hijack netscape while it is ssl-attached to an on-line banking or stock-trading site ... mmm ... --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:42:10 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:33 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 17 00:29:05 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA13372 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27246 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:29:04 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA05158 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:28:27 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05154 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:28:27 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27215 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:28:26 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26615 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:28:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zJWbw-0007nj-00; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:28:08 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: killer bug & version 1.1.18 References: <199809170315.WAA21423@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 17 Sep 1998 00:28:07 -500 In-Reply-To: Linas Vepstas's message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:15:12 -0500" Message-ID: <87iuin5mvs.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Linas Vepstas writes: > Next person to find a killer bug will win a free download of version > 1.1.19 Looks like all my problems with the reconcile window are fixed. Are you still working on the "self-referential" transactions, or do they work for you now? I've still got the problem here. I still have to keep redirecting one end of a single-line transaction after I create it... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:52 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:14 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 11:42:04 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA08269 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:42:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10051 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:42:02 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21241 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:39:08 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21236 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:39:07 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08836 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:39:07 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA25658; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161637.MAA25658@jekyll.piermont.com> To: Ted Lemon cc: perry@piermont.com, linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:52:39 EDT." <199809161552.LAA06333@andare.fugue.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:37:09 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > > > Actually, SSL protects nicely against hijacks (at least in most ways > > -- you can't forge data, although you do not get protection against > > forged TCP control messages, especially RSTs.) > > If you can hijack the process with the key and the open session, I believe the question was hijacking the TCP connections themselves using active attacks. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:50 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 10:55:22 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA08556 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:55:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28953 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:55:22 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17560 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:10 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17548 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:07 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28094 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:08 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA08045; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA06333; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161552.LAA06333@andare.fugue.com> To: perry@piermont.com cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:47:17 EDT." <199809161547.LAA25432@jekyll.piermont.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:52:39 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > Actually, SSL protects nicely against hijacks (at least in most ways > -- you can't forge data, although you do not get protection against > forged TCP control messages, especially RSTs.) If you can hijack the process with the key and the open session, you can do whatever you want. I just don't think this is the attack we need to be most concerned about right now. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:49 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:19:11 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 10:55:17 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA08498 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:55:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28941 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:55:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17531 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17421 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:51:01 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27017 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:49:17 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA25432; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161547.LAA25432@jekyll.piermont.com> To: Ted Lemon cc: linas@linas.org, perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:45:37 EDT." <199809161445.KAA05864@andare.fugue.com> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:47:17 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > > But I don't understand how to authenticate a stream. Any hacker can insert > > any packet into the stream after its been "authenticated", and it > > becomes about as hard as hijacking a telnet session. > > This depends on what sort of attack you're worried about. If you > believe somebody could compromise the CORBA application after the user > has authenticated and thereby hijack the encrypted stream, then you're > right that trusting SSL or some other similar thing is no good. Actually, SSL protects nicely against hijacks (at least in most ways -- you can't forge data, although you do not get protection against forged TCP control messages, especially RSTs.) Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:39 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:59 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 09:46:52 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA24528 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09900 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:51 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA13853 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:11 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13848 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:10 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09681 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:11 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA07520; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA05864; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161445.KAA05864@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:46:03 CDT." <199809160646.BAA15898@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:45:37 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > But I don't understand how to authenticate a stream. Any hacker can insert > any packet into the stream after its been "authenticated", and it > becomes about as hard as hijacking a telnet session. This depends on what sort of attack you're worried about. If you believe somebody could compromise the CORBA application after the user has authenticated and thereby hijack the encrypted stream, then you're right that trusting SSL or some other similar thing is no good. But that's a very high level of paranoia. A less high, but still useful level of paranoia is the prevention of known users from doing unauthorized things, and the prevention of man-in-the-middle attacks. A secure path prevents the man-in-the-middle attack, and a working authorization model prevents unauthorized access by known users. Remember that users can be things like CGI scripts, so this is important - the mere act of perverting a CGI script should not give an attacker control of your database. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:34 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:56 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 09:42:10 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA21621 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:42:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08384 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:42:07 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA13540 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:41:33 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13534 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:41:29 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08225 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:41:29 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA07481; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA05853; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161440.KAA05853@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Patch to fix Reconcile setup window parsing problem. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:20:04 CDT." <199809160620.BAA15548@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:40:42 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > in the finest hacker tradition, I din't test this; so you may want to ... > hope I didn't screw it up. (lighten up already, its BETA code!) ROTFL As long as somebody tests it, the greater purpose is served... _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:31 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:54 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 08:53:07 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id IAA21514 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:53:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25810 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:53:05 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA09604 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:51:36 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09600 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:51:35 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25561 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:51:33 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA25101; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809161351.JAA25101@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:46:03 CDT." <199809160646.BAA15898@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:27 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > > Probably that would have been excess overhead. It would be sufficient > > in most instances to authenticate the stream itself so that you only > > But I don't understand how to authenticate a stream. By using a protocol like SSHv2, SSL, or several others that attach a cryptographic message authentication code (MAC) to every segment sent on that stream. As a first step, both sides do a D-H key exchange that gets signed with each side's public key to bootstrap the authentication -- the resulting authenticated keying material is then used as the keying material for the MAC. There are other cryptographic techniques to do the same thing. > Any hacker can insert any packet into the stream after its been > "authenticated", and it becomes about as hard as hijacking a telnet > session. Not if you do what I just mentioned. > > couple per message. However, in principle, yes, you want some sort of > > cryptographic authentication on every message (even if that is just > > implicit because the message came through the correct SSL tunnel and > > could thus be tagged as authentic.) > > Well, with SSL, even if you have encryption turned off, you do get a MAC > for every byte if I reme,ber correctly. And, yes, it does cost non-trivial > cpu cycles. In general, this is not a problem. Why? Because the data rates most applications use are tiny. Lets say you used SSL to fully authenticate your transport connection for gnucash. The average user is going to be transmitting hundreds to thousands of bytes a second at most -- rates which are dwarfed by the encryption speeds of modern processors. A modern P-II can saturate an ethernet with 3DES traffic and still have plenty of room to spare -- if it were only trying to send at 1% of ethernet speed, no one would even notice the CPU burned. BTW, note that encryption *is* a problem at disk channel speeds, but we aren't talking about an application that moves at that speed. > I guess what I'm sayihng is that I don't see how the corba folks > ever could have done better, without going the whole-hog > authentication, non-reopudiability, etc route which pretty much > means a MAC or other signature per message, etc. The problem is that their model doesn't even make it possible to fix things even if you have an authenticated stream. As I noted, you would need to have a notion of acls, not capabilities, in the implicit security model. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:26 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:49 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 01:08:18 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA23248 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:08:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20812 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:08:16 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA19978 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:07:33 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19973 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:07:32 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20779 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:07:32 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27020; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:03:33 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA15898; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:46:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199809160646.BAA15898@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: perry@piermont.com Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:46:03 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809151509.LAA22362@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 15, 98 11:09:02 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi Perry, I was so tempted to let you have the last word ... but I just cant control myself. It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > > linas@linas.org writes: > > > A proper security model for CORBA would have linked > > > privileges for invoking a reference to particular entities, instead of > > > just allowing any entity knowing the reference to invoke the > > > object. > > > > OK, I gues it makes sense (would have made sense) to couple some acl thingy > > to each reference. > > > > But then I don't understand how they would have implemented the next part: > > how would one have authenticated any given reference? Should each IOR > > (or whatever they're called) have been signed with some digital signiture? > > Probably that would have been excess overhead. It would be sufficient > in most instances to authenticate the stream itself so that you only But I don't understand how to authenticate a stream. Any hacker can insert any packet into the stream after its been "authenticated", and it becomes about as hard as hijacking a telnet session. > couple per message. However, in principle, yes, you want some sort of > cryptographic authentication on every message (even if that is just > implicit because the message came through the correct SSL tunnel and > could thus be tagged as authentic.) Well, with SSL, even if you have encryption turned off, you do get a MAC for every byte if I reme,ber correctly. And, yes, it does cost non-trivial cpu cycles. I guess what I'm sayihng is that I don't see how the corba folks ever could have done better, without going the whole-hog authentication, non-reopudiability, etc route which pretty much means a MAC or other signature per message, etc. --linas > > Perry > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:25 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:47 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 00:41:50 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA14945 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:41:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15121 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:41:48 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA18154 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:41:18 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18150 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:41:18 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15072 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:41:17 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA26986; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:37:19 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA15548; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:20:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199809160620.BAA15548@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Patch to fix Reconcile setup window parsing problem. To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:20:04 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <871zpdvvh6.fsf@raven.localhost> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 15, 98 05:53:25 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 OK, done, I couldn't help noticing & fixing the edit, which should have been /* use startpos & endpos to determine position * of insertion and/or deletion */ strncpy (new_value, prev_str, cbs->startPos); if (new_chars) strncat (new_value, new_chars, cbs->text->length); strcat (new_value, &prev_str[cbs->endPos]); in the finest hacker tradition, I din't test this; so you may want to ... hope I didn't screw it up. (lighten up already, its BETA code!) --linas It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > > Currently you can't enter negative numbers in the reconcile setup > window. This patch fixes that and (ad an added bonus) allows you to > enter values in engineering notation if you are so inclined. > > --- xtutil.c Tue Sep 15 17:38:36 1998 > +++ xtutil.c.rlb Tue Sep 15 17:36:36 1998 > @@ -23,6 +23,7 @@ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:26 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:48 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 16 01:04:21 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA22124 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:04:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19832 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:04:20 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA19644 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:03:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19640 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:03:38 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19783 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:03:38 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19570 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zJAgW-0002iJ-00; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:03:24 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Patch to fix Reconcile setup window parsing problem. References: <871zpdvvh6.fsf@raven.localhost> From: Rob Browning Date: 16 Sep 1998 01:03:24 -500 In-Reply-To: Rob Browning's message of "15 Sep 1998 17:53:25 -500" Message-ID: <87n280vbkj.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Rob Browning writes: > Currently you can't enter negative numbers in the reconcile setup > window. This patch fixes that and (ad an added bonus) allows you to > enter values in engineering notation if you are so inclined. It turns out that this patch does make things better, but it's still a little broken. You can enter a negative number, but only if you start with the minus sign. You can't add it later. I'll track that down soon unless someone else does. I probably misunderstood the VerifyCallback semantics... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:21 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:44 1998) X-From_: yanomamy@netrover.com Tue Sep 15 19:30:44 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id TAA15555 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:30:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17881 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:27:31 -0500 Received: from netrover.com (yanomamy@qc1-48.netrover.com [198.168.87.48]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09085 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Sender: yanomamy@river.netrover.com Message-ID: <35FF0751.345DC7E9@netrover.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:33:22 +0000 From: somekool da oultoubalzoo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webmaster@gnucash.org Subject: xacc-1.0.18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi, I try to install xacc-1.0.18 on my linux system, but it doesn't compil.. I want to know if some package is requierd by xacc-1.0.18 thanks From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:24 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:46 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 22:30:03 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA21837 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11896 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:30:02 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10159 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:28:17 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10153 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:28:15 -0500 Received: from risacher.worldnet.att.net (51.oklahoma-city-01.ok.dial-access.att.net [12.67.36.51]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11590 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:28:13 -0500 Received: (from magnus@localhost) by risacher.worldnet.att.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26062; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:27:38 GMT To: brians@ucsd.edu Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <13821.11815.525448.243939@hexmode.gomr.mms.gov> <98091410341802.00189@fidessa> From: Daniel R Risacher Date: 15 Sep 1998 22:27:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: Brian Sanders's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:34:57 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Sanders writes: Brian> I got it to compile fine from the cvs using "make motif", Brian> but when I try to run it, I get Brian> gnucash: startup-file is /opt/gnucash/share/scm/startup.scm Brian> guile: Stack overflow Brian> I am using guile 1.2-6 and lesstif. I may investigate Brian> further as time permits. I had this problem too. Getting a new guile snapshot fixed it. -- I fully intend to live forever. Or die trying. Daniel Risacher magnus@alum.mit.edu ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:13 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:35 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 16:26:04 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA06866 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:26:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26018 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:26:02 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13310 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:23:49 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13301 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:23:45 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25075 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:23:44 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA27524; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA02176; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809152123.RAA02176@andare.fugue.com> To: Rob Browning cc: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! In-Reply-To: Your message of "15 Sep 1998 13:21:17." <87sohtme3m.fsf@raven.localhost> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:23:18 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > You seem to want to make this confrontational. Did you mean to? Sigh. I seem to have done to you what people often do to me, which was (two messages ago) to give you the impression that I was accusing you of not doing the right thing, when in fact I was implicitly volunteering to do the right thing for you. Your response to that apparent accusation felt confrontational to me, although I now realize from reading your response that that wasn't your intent. So my response _was_ confrontational. (blush) Sorry about that. > If others want to enhance what I've done with more general > implementations, or if they ask me to avoid certain things and tell > me how, then fine, as long as the result isn't an overly compromised > solution. Modulo the last clause, this is what I was asking for. I am not asking you to figure out how not to use GNU make, or to fix incompatibilities between GNU make and other versions of make - I'm just asking you not to argue about it if I submit patches that fix GNU makeisms but accomplish the same thing. Are we friends again? :') _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:19 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:41 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 17:55:24 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA27625 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19436 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:23 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20641 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20636 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:38 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18687 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:38 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17391 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zJ3yP-0001rU-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:25 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Patch to fix Reconcile setup window parsing problem. From: Rob Browning Date: 15 Sep 1998 17:53:25 -500 Message-ID: <871zpdvvh6.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 78 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Currently you can't enter negative numbers in the reconcile setup window. This patch fixes that and (ad an added bonus) allows you to enter values in engineering notation if you are so inclined. --- xtutil.c Tue Sep 15 17:38:36 1998 +++ xtutil.c.rlb Tue Sep 15 17:36:36 1998 @@ -23,6 +23,7 @@ * Huntington Beach, CA 92648-4632 * \********************************************************************/ +#include #include #include #include @@ -110,32 +111,36 @@ amountCB( Widget mw, XtPointer cd, XtPointer cb ) { XmTextVerifyCallbackStruct *cbs = (XmTextVerifyCallbackStruct *)cb; - char input; - - if( cbs->text->ptr != NULL ) - { - input = (cbs->text->ptr)[0]; - switch( input ) - { - case '.': - /* Make sure that there is only one '.' */ - { - String str = XmTextGetString(mw); - int i,count=0; - - for( i=0; str[i] != '\0'; i++ ) - if( str[i] == '.' ) - count++; - if( count >= 1 ) + if( cbs->text->ptr != NULL ) { + char *new_chars = cbs->text->ptr; + String prev_str = XmTextGetString(mw); + char *new_value = alloca(strlen(prev_str) + strlen(new_chars) + 1); + + assert(new_value); + + strcpy(new_value, prev_str); + strcat(new_value, new_chars); + + if(strcmp(new_value, "-") == 0) { + /* User has just started entering a negative number -- starting + with a "-". Will the OK button handle this weird case? */ + cbs->doit = True; + } else { + double tmp_double; + char tmp_char; + const int items_converted = + sscanf(new_value, " %lf %c", &tmp_double, &tmp_char); + + if(items_converted == 1) { + /* If we were able to read exactly one item, then the input is + OK -- just one valid number */ + cbs->doit = True; + } else { cbs->doit = False; } - break; - default: - /* only accept the input if it is a number */ - cbs->doit = isNum(input); - } } + } } /********************************************************************\ -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:18 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:41 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 17:53:17 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA26502 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18641 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:53:17 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20433 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:51:23 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20429 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:51:22 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18254 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:51:22 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17385 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zJ3wD-0001rB-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:51:09 -0500 To: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809152123.RAA02176@andare.fugue.com> From: Rob Browning Date: 15 Sep 1998 17:51:08 -500 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:23:18 -0400" Message-ID: <874su9vvkz.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > I'm just asking you not to argue about it if I submit patches that > fix GNU makeisms but accomplish the same thing. I'd never argue about things like this unless they compromise something important. I hope I generally avoid nit-picking, though I do have a few pet issues :> > Are we friends again? :') It would take a *lot* more than this to cause any real bad blood with me. Don't worry about it. Miscommunications are pretty common on the net, and I'm sure a lot of needless anguish is caused by people getting emotionally invested before asking for clarification -- best to avoid that. Back to work... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:09 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:31 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 12:50:22 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA27554 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:50:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24235 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:50:18 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26591 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:48:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26584 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:48:02 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23515 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:48:01 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA25066; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA28037; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809151747.NAA28037@andare.fugue.com> To: Rob Browning cc: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! In-Reply-To: Your message of "15 Sep 1998 11:56:36 CDT." <87iuipnwl7.fsf@raven.localhost> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:47:34 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > Fixing gnu makesisms is very unlikely. I find it hard enough to get > make to do what you want with all the stuff GNU has added. I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you should let somebody else design the makefiles - I've really never seen a convincing excuse for why one should use all the cruft GNU make provides. You're right that make itself is an imperfect paradigm and needs a redesign, but meanwhile, GNU make is not universal, will never _be_ universal, and therefore depending on features it provides is, IMHO, a mistake. > Not knowing what your constraints are, I would suggest that you could > create your own ~/.bin/ dir and put it first in your path. Right, then I'd get GNU make every time I typed make. I don't _want_ to get GNU make every time I type make. If I do that, I'll almost inevitably begin to create Makefiles that don't build on non-GNU makes - some of the GNU make incompatibilities are quite subtle. I'll certainly stop being able to build my NetBSD source tree, which depends on the standard NetBSD make. Right now I'm building Gtk and GNUcash more often than NetBSD, but that's not always the case. I think it's important to maintain inter-make compatibility - if you want to do something unmakish, put it in configure.in and Makefile.in, not in Makefile. > In most cases this shouldn't hurt, and you could still run the old > make forcibly when you needed to do compatibility testing or > whatever. One of the basic tenets of the free software community is choice. We want people to be able to choose what software they run, and how it's configured. Unfortunately, one of the things that seems to happen quite frequently in this community for reasons I don't understand is that one programmer tries to impose a choice on another by making a claim like the one you have just made. If we don't care about choice, why not just force everybody to use the Motif UI and stop supporting Qt and Gtk UIs? Quite frankly, I could come up with much more convincing arguments to advance that point of view than I think you can to advance the point of view that GNU make dependencies are OK. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:06 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:29 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 12:02:07 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA01298 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:02:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08464 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:02:05 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20609 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:56:51 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20605 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:56:50 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06963 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:56:49 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15581 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:56:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIyP7-0008MB-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:56:37 -0500 To: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809151625.MAA10318@andare.fugue.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 15 Sep 1998 11:56:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:25:11 -0400" Message-ID: <87iuipnwl7.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > Fixing bashisms is a very good idea, as is fixing gnumakisms. It's > kind of a drag to have to remember to type gmake when I'm rebuilding > gnucash... :'( Fixing bashisms is likely. Fixing gnu makesisms is very unlikely. I find it hard enough to get make to do what you want with all the stuff GNU has added. (Of course, if you ask me, make is begging for a complete redesign -- of course it wouldn't be make then. Cons looks quite interesting, but it's too non-standard to even consider for a big public project right now.) Not knowing what your constraints are, I would suggest that you could create your own ~/.bin/ dir and put it first in your path. Then you could just put a symlink from make to gmake in there. In most cases this shouldn't hurt, and you could still run the old make forcibly when you needed to do compatibility testing or whatever. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:05 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:27 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 11:26:31 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA11477 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:26:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29667 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:26:30 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17282 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:25:40 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17277 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:25:39 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29475 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:25:38 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA24199; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA10318; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809151625.MAA10318@andare.fugue.com> To: Rob Browning cc: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! In-Reply-To: Your message of "15 Sep 1998 10:53:11 CDT." <87iuipcqzc.fsf@raven.localhost> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:25:11 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > True. I was just too lazy to suggest the right thing which is to > either fix the bashisms or add a configure test to figure out where > bash lives. Fixing bashisms is a very good idea, as is fixing gnumakisms. It's kind of a drag to have to remember to type gmake when I'm rebuilding gnucash... :'( _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:03 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:25 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 10:55:12 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA22726 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:55:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18629 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:55:09 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14101 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:53:26 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA14092 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:53:25 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18170 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:53:24 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15294 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:53:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIxPj-0007vP-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:53:11 -0500 To: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 15 Sep 1998 10:53:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: John Fieber's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:45 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <87iuipcqzc.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 John Fieber writes: > And how many of these other platforms have bash in /bin? I would > venture a guess that /usr/local/bin/bash would have a higher > success rate. Or better yet, `which bash`. True. I was just too lazy to suggest the right thing which is to either fix the bashisms or add a configure test to figure out where bash lives. Also "which" isn't safe either. It is (I think) a cshism. Bash doesn't have it, so many sh or bash based systems may or may not have it. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:02 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:24 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 10:22:04 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA02360 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:22:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09245 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:22:01 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11342 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:56 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11337 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:55 -0500 Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08887 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07554; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:20:45 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Rob Browning cc: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! In-Reply-To: <87ogsic721.fsf@raven.localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On 14 Sep 1998, Rob Browning wrote: > Until we get rid of the bashisms, we should just put > > SHELL=/bin/bash > export SHELL > > in the top level Makefile. Otherwise this will be an issue for any > platform where /bin/sh isn't bash. And how many of these other platforms have bash in /bin? I would venture a guess that /usr/local/bin/bash would have a higher success rate. Or better yet, `which bash`. Putting third-party things like bash in system directories just makes for trouble when you need to upgrade the OS. -john ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:01 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 10:16:56 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA29104 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07279 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:16:54 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10620 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:16:04 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10552 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:15:37 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06794 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:15:31 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22373; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809151515.LAA22373@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:15:07 CDT." <199809150615.BAA09851@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:15:17 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Just one more (irrelevant to gnucash) aside) linas@linas.org writes: > It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > Guessing a reference is trivial, and if you have a legitimate > > connection to the server, you can then guess references for objects > > you have no legitimate access to and do evil things. > > > > It is like saying "imagine that if you knew the inode number of the > > file, you had all privileges over it, instead of your privileges being > > based on who you were". Well, then, imagine how hard it would be to > > break the system? > > OK, yes, this is a good example. > > By writing a layer that asks for a password before establishing a session > is like saying "there is no mounted filesystem until the user has supplied > a password" so you get a little protection. Well, "maybe". If the password authentication uses CORBA itself, you still have a problem because the user can guess references very early on in the process. BTW, other systems have similar problems. NFS is insecure partially because you can guess filehandles. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:00 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:22 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 10:10:48 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA25709 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:10:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05161 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:10:46 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10135 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:09:31 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10131 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:09:30 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04296 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:09:29 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22362; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809151509.LAA22362@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:15:07 CDT." <199809150615.BAA09851@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:09:02 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > > A proper security model for CORBA would have linked > > privileges for invoking a reference to particular entities, instead of > > just allowing any entity knowing the reference to invoke the > > object. > > OK, I gues it makes sense (would have made sense) to couple some acl thingy > to each reference. > > But then I don't understand how they would have implemented the next part: > how would one have authenticated any given reference? Should each IOR > (or whatever they're called) have been signed with some digital signiture? Probably that would have been excess overhead. It would be sufficient in most instances to authenticate the stream itself so that you only do a couple of modular exponentiations per connection instead of a couple per message. However, in principle, yes, you want some sort of cryptographic authentication on every message (even if that is just implicit because the message came through the correct SSL tunnel and could thus be tagged as authentic.) Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:59 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:22 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 09:21:20 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA26595 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:21:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21592 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:21:17 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05835 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:20:02 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05784 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:19:49 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20584 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:19:47 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (mellon.tiac.net [206.119.204.48]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA23119; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA02762; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809151419.KAA02762@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:34:10 CDT." <199809150534.AAA09630@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:19:18 -0400 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > If you have malicious users behind your firewall, you've got a problem no > matter what. I don't want to get into a flame war about firewalls here, so suffice it to say that there is a large group of security weenies (which includes me, BTW) who believe that if you depend on a firewall to keep your network secure, you are begging to lose. Firewall + plugging of known security holes and constant vigilance, maybe. Firewall alone: forget it. What Perry has said about CORBA does in fact represent a serious security problem (one of which I had previously been unaware). Perry does security for banks - I trust his judgement on this. Sigh. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:41:10 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:32 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 13:24:44 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id NAA17228 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:24:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03055 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:24:42 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29706 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:21:39 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29701 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:21:37 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02290 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:21:35 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15924 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:21:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIzj3-0000QC-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:21:17 -0500 To: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809151747.NAA28037@andare.fugue.com> From: Rob Browning Date: 15 Sep 1998 13:21:17 -500 In-Reply-To: Ted Lemon's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:47:34 -0400" Message-ID: <87sohtme3m.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 57 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070031 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.31) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Ted Lemon writes: > I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you should let somebody else > design the makefiles - I've really never seen a convincing excuse for > why one should use all the cruft GNU make provides. Knock yourself out. > Unfortunately, one of the things that seems to happen quite > frequently in this community for reasons I don't understand is that > one programmer tries to impose a choice on another by making a claim > like the one you have just made. You seem to want to make this confrontational. Did you mean to? I only "imposed" the choice on others because I was familiar with (and have only ever used) GNU make. This is not a conspiracy. As you point out, some of the differences are subtle. I'm not even sure I could eliminate all of them if I tried. Further, I use the tools that I'm familiar with, and that I think handle the job best. If others want to enhance what I've done with more general implementations, or if they ask me to avoid certain things and tell me how, then fine, as long as the result isn't an overly compromised solution. The only way I can see that your point is supportable is if you asked me to remove a GNU makism, provided a reasonable alternative, and I had refused. But even then, it wouldn't have been up to me alone. Right now only Linas has CVS write access, so he'd be the arbiter, and even that's not the final word. Anyone could provide a patch on their web-site. This *is* free software. > If we don't care about choice, why not just force everybody to use the > Motif UI and stop supporting Qt and Gtk UIs? Quite frankly, I could > come up with much more convincing arguments to advance that point of > view than I think you can to advance the point of view that GNU make > dependencies are OK. What do you mean by OK? I said *I* find it hard enough to get make to do what you want with all the stuff GNU has added. I didn't say it was OK, a good idea, or should be generally preferred. I said that I used the solution that I was comfortable with. In the end, this is about who writes the code, and how much time they have. So far I hadn't didn't really worried about the compatibility issues. I suppose I had presumed that gnu make was available most places. This doesn't mean I was *trying* to make things harder. If you want to submit patches, go ahead. Hell, I might even fix some of the problems myself sometime, but note that I have a limited amount of time to spend on GnuCash, and fixing make compatibility issues, after I worked on fixing the build, install, and dependency problems is low on my list right now. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:55 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:18 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 05:08:48 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id FAA01521 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:08:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24676 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:08:47 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA22741 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:06:20 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22737 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:06:14 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org ([194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24514 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:06:13 -0500 Received: from Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net ([195.38.156.102]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA30549 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:06:07 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA part II Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:40:21 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98091512122302.00211@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 hi! first of all i wanted to give a report on the quotes stuff. well, i looked at xquote and found out that although it is a nice program to use it does not have that nice code design so porting does not make sense at all. that means no copyright problems, rewrite it anyway. so i started to rewrite it (parsing quotes from a web page is not THAT hard) but after i have designed and hacked some code to map the data obtained from the web on the accounts via some additional databases etc i have stopped. i think first of all there should be a clear design of a plug-in interface. so part 2 of this message thanks to rob i know now that guile/tcl etc is not thought as an alternative to compiled plug ins but as an additional feature. so i have thought a little bit about a possible design of a port of the engine towards a corba interface. i will ignore the ongoing discussion about security in this email, not because i think it is not important but i think it has to be solved anyway; we are not the only ones that want to use corba. what you will read now are my first thoughts about implementing the engine in corba in line with the design outlines on the developers web page and in the various readmes and design.txts. DESIGN PROPOSAL (ROUGH OUTLINE) ----------------------------- Engine -------- Split the existing engine in the following classes: - GcAccountGroup - GcAccount - GcSplit - GcTransaction - GcEngine These five classes first of all simply use the design already used in the engine. Additionally I would introduce a class - GcRegistry that is used to store some metadata that is used by e.g. plug ins or the user interface. Since there is in my eyes need for two different classes of metadata, global and account-group related one, I would give GcAccountGroup as well as GcEngine a gcGetRegistry method that returns the local and the global registry object. The registry can store its data in the account database and (global data) in the config file in the user's root directory. An example for global metadata of my plugin would be a database of all REUTERS codes of stocks available, in the local registry (the account-group related one) the plug in can save e.g. what codes have been selected to be updated etc. An ui could store general options (e.g. user preferences) in the global registry and e.g. last position of windows in the local registry. GcEngine could as well be a metaclass since it only has to represent the engine as such, with methods like gcReadAccountGroup. GcSplit should be an abstract class whose functionality can be implemented in derived concrete classes, e.g. for simple money transfers, buy of securities (which will be further divided in stocks, futures, bonds) etc. Assigned with every GcSplit is a - GcCurrency object that represents the currency of the transaction and that can be used to compute the value of the other split. E.g. if in Germany I buy stocks at the NYSE the price is in dollar, but my account is in DEM so the value of the split there will be the value of the stock-split multiplied with the GcCurrency value. One GcSplit subclass is GcComment that can store general data like company statements. Since this could be data that affects more than one account (e.g. general economical data), it is stored centralized and the GcComment object in the different accounts only point on this data. GcSplit subclasses that represent any type of securities will have to have additional fields, e.g. to store maturities, volume (for special price quotes) etc. In the design outline on the webpage a transparent mechanism to read data from different sources is proposed. I would realize this completely with plug in objects. So I would introduce - GcPlugIn to be the base class of all plug ins. How to make plugins independent from ui toolkits (GTK, QT/KDE), I do not know since they will need an ui in many cases. - GcIOPlugIn is derived from it and will be the base class for all i/o plugins, e.g. GcIOXacc, GcIOQif, GcIOSql, GcIOOnlineBanking, GcIOReadWww (yeah, my plugin!) etc. Since some of the media is non-persistent, ie it is not sure if you will get the data again in the future (e.g. from web pages), GcIOPlugIn has a method gcIsPersistentMedia that returns FALSE in such cases. Then the data obtained from this source can be copied to a persistent media (e.g. the SQL database). One example: You make a bank transfer in your account. The data is written to the GcIOOnlineBanking object that uses the WWW-interface of your bank to give the data to your bank. Then it reads the state of the transfer (via an online request to your bank account balance) what will then appear in your account. Possibly the GcIOOnlineBanking plugin is not persistent, i.e. you will not get a full track of all of your transactions of the past via online banking, then the data is stored locally (e.g. via GcIOPlugInXacc). One account group so can use many IO plugins at the same to get its data. Perhaps the IO plugins could be based on the GNOME VFS (virtual file system), if this is not an unwanted dependency. In this system of course there is one big problem: How to map the data obtained from a source to the accounts. If you read it from your account group file of course you have account ids and account name, but if you read from www stock quotes or MetaStock data or online banking interfaces that is not that simple; and it also has to work the other way round. So we need a - GcDataMapper class that has at least two methods gcFindAccounts and gcFindSources. Both get a - GcMapInfo struct as parameter that contains information on how to find the account or the source. Both return a vector of GcMapInfos that contain information about the matches. When you call gcFindAccounts you normally fill the fields with data like the banking account number, REUTERS codes etc. and the method returns a list of accounts that could match. If there is more or less then one account the user could be prompted to help; the data obtained from a succesful match will be stored in the registry by the GcDataMapper so it can be used in the future and to do reverse mapping. Reverse mapping is what gcFindSources is for. There you fill the GcMapInfo with the things like accountId, account name, comments etc. and the GcDataMapper tries to find (with the help of its registry if there is already some data available) some sources (e.g. quotes web pages, online banking interfaces, company web pages etc.) and the IO plugins for this account. Again user help could be involved the first time or later again if the user wants to modify the matches. How to actually do the mapping is job of the GcDataMapper, it could use regexp libraries etc. The most simple implementation would to be a simple user query where the user has to find the matches. A second type would be the - GcReportPlugIn that is used for report generation/data analyzing. A report interface that generates HTML code (that can then be translated to SGML, PS, TeX etc. via an additional tool) is proposed on the developers web page. So I would propose an ui that is an HTML designer, very much like a wordprocessor or the Mathematica frontend, and include automatically generated reports (tables for account balances, graphs etc) with a reserved HTML keyword that also allows you to specify some layout parameters like size and position. When the document finally is generated, a parser calls for every of these keywords the appropriate report plugin and replaces it with the output of the plugin (that has to be pure HTML code with embedded images etc.). Chaining of report plug ins could be helpful, e.g. first filter stock quotes from noise with a plugin before they are used in a technical analysis tool. Finding and linking the plugins to the engine could esaily be done via the CORBA repository. _____________________________- END this are some rough proposals on how to design a corba engine for GnuCash. i hope it is in line with all the other proposals (e.g. scripting, budget engine etc). i was just thinking. i did not mention script languages in this document, i think it should be possible to access the engine via corba bindings for all these languages and to even create new classes or derive them, so writing plugins should be easily possible with compiled languages as well as with interpreted ones. regards stephan ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:52 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:14 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 00:38:23 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA06461 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20346 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:38:22 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07934 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:36:40 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07930 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:36:40 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20101 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:36:40 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20053; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:32:46 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA09851; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:15:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150615.BAA09851@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:15:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809150510.BAA20395@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 15, 98 01:10:12 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > Guessing a reference is trivial, and if you have a legitimate > connection to the server, you can then guess references for objects > you have no legitimate access to and do evil things. > > It is like saying "imagine that if you knew the inode number of the > file, you had all privileges over it, instead of your privileges being > based on who you were". Well, then, imagine how hard it would be to > break the system? OK, yes, this is a good example. By writing a layer that asks for a password before establishing a session is like saying "there is no mounted filesystem until the user has supplied a password" so you get a little protection. > No, you wouldn't. A proper security model for CORBA would have linked > privileges for invoking a reference to particular entities, instead of > just allowing any entity knowing the reference to invoke the > object. OK, I gues it makes sense (would have made sense) to couple some acl thingy to each reference. But then I don't understand how they would have implemented the next part: how would one have authenticated any given reference? Should each IOR (or whatever they're called) have been signed with some digital signiture? After all, a packet on the net is just a packet on the net, it could have come from anywhere; acl's are useless unless you have some means of trusting that packet. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:46 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:09 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 23:57:53 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA23603 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:57:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11640 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:57:49 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04854 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:56:07 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04850 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:56:07 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11448 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:56:03 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19705; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:52:10 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA09630; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:34:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150534.AAA09630@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809150433.AAA20255@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 15, 98 00:33:27 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi Perry, It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > > linas@linas.org writes: > > > Corba has virtually none of the above. It is more or less a naked RPC > > > mechanism and lacks all the basics we would now take for granted in a > > > new protocol. > > > > Well, chapter 16 or something like that, of the corba services spec > > outlines a hundred pages of security stuff, although I agree it > > appears that no one has implemented the stuff. Not clear why ... > > too hard, underspecified, not fully baked, too new, whatever. > > All of the above and more. Bummer. > > or "once I have the machine name I can find the DNS entry and the IP > > number". I don't see anything wrong with that. -- I mean, theyr'e > > supposed to be easy to find, right? > > I don't think you get the issue. > > Lets say that I have twenty people connecting to a server, and all of > them have access to different objects with different security > properties. Some of them should be able to access certain objects, > some of them shouldn't. > > If I guess an object reference, I can then invoke a method on that > remote object -- period. So what? That's like saying that once I hijack someones telnet session, I can modify any file that person owns. Yeah, its a problem but most telnet sessions don't get hijacked, and for those who care, there's ssh or stelnet or whatever. If you have malicious users behind your firewall, you've got a problem no matter what. If you don't live behind a firewall, then don't let your orb respond to any old IP address. hack it with tcpwrapper or something. > > > reference, in corba, is the equivalent of a true name in medieval > > > magician's lore -- once you know it, the thing named is in your > > > power. In this instance, once you've guessed an object reference, even > > > if your connection to the ORB was to permit you to do something > > > totally legitimate, you may now do illegitimate things. > > > > This I don't understand. It's "my" code that would do the check: for > > example, to modify an account, you first have to establish a session. > > To establish a session, you'd need to supply a password. > > This isn't how corba works -- it has no notion of "logging on". You > can layer that on top, of course -- I could build things such that > when I open up my connection I only have a reference to an object > which gives me other references when I give it a password, Yes, that is what I was suggesting. I was thinking that there are a variety of reasons to ask for a password; if nothing else, then to know which secretary last scrambled the books ... > but once I > have a connection to the ORB, if I can guess an object reference, I > can frob that object. Yes, I agree, that does seem to be the case. And I guess your complaint about easy guessing is that the o-ref is not some crypto-random 32 or 64 bit number, but "1", "2" or "3" depending on whether this was the first, second or third object created ... But OK, I think I see your point, but I'm not sure yet that it bothers me. I mean, you'd run into the same types of problems trying to do anything secure over the net. Are you implying that we should think about DCE or something? --linas > > Perry > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:50 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:12 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 00:23:22 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA01998 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:23:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17159 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:23:21 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07210 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:21:22 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07203 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:21:20 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16931 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:21:19 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA20438; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809150517.BAA20438@jekyll.piermont.com> To: Rob Browning cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "14 Sep 1998 23:46:39 CDT." <87sohuc79s.fsf@raven.localhost> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:17:30 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Rob Browning writes: > > Well, chapter 16 or something like that, of the corba services spec > > outlines a hundred pages of security stuff > > If I wanted to learn a little more about CORBA, what's the preferred > source? The OMG publishes an introductory book. I'm not sure it is ideal, but... Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:47 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:10 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 15 00:12:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA28535 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:12:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14722 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:12:12 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA05734 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:10:24 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05729 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:10:24 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14413 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:10:22 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA20395; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809150510.BAA20395@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:34:10 CDT." <199809150534.AAA09630@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:10:12 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > > > or "once I have the machine name I can find the DNS entry and the IP > > > number". I don't see anything wrong with that. -- I mean, theyr'e > > > supposed to be easy to find, right? > > > > I don't think you get the issue. > > > > Lets say that I have twenty people connecting to a server, and all of > > them have access to different objects with different security > > properties. Some of them should be able to access certain objects, > > some of them shouldn't. > > > > If I guess an object reference, I can then invoke a method on that > > remote object -- period. > > So what? That's like saying that once I hijack someones telnet session, > I can modify any file that person owns. It is not the same. Hijacking a telnet session is hard. It requires an active attack on the network. Guessing a reference is trivial, and if you have a legitimate connection to the server, you can then guess references for objects you have no legitimate access to and do evil things. It is like saying "imagine that if you knew the inode number of the file, you had all privileges over it, instead of your privileges being based on who you were". Well, then, imagine how hard it would be to break the system? The security model is screwed up, because it is essentially a capabilities based model, even though the designers didn't realize it was a capabilities based model, and they didn't take care to make sure the capabilities were well hidden. It is in some sense the same reason that credit card fraud is so easy -- the "secret password" and the "object identifier" are identical (in the credit card case, it is printed on the front of the card where anyone can see it.) > > > This I don't understand. It's "my" code that would do the check: for > > > example, to modify an account, you first have to establish a session. > > > To establish a session, you'd need to supply a password. > > > > This isn't how corba works -- it has no notion of "logging on". You > > can layer that on top, of course -- I could build things such that > > when I open up my connection I only have a reference to an object > > which gives me other references when I give it a password, > > Yes, that is what I was suggesting. I was thinking that there are a > variety of reasons to ask for a password; if nothing else, then to > know which secretary last scrambled the books ... But you can't know! CORBA doesn't have a notion of which user is really which. Pass a few references around in your application, and who is who any more? > > but once I > > have a connection to the ORB, if I can guess an object reference, I > > can frob that object. > > Yes, I agree, that does seem to be the case. > > And I guess your complaint about easy guessing is that the o-ref is not > some crypto-random 32 or 64 bit number, but "1", "2" or "3" depending > on whether this was the first, second or third object created ... > > But OK, I think I see your point, but I'm not sure yet that it bothers me. > I mean, you'd run into the same types of problems trying to do anything > secure over the net. No, you wouldn't. A proper security model for CORBA would have linked privileges for invoking a reference to particular entities, instead of just allowing any entity knowing the reference to invoke the object. By accident, they turned it into a capabilities model when that was not what they really wanted to begin with. They didn't think about security, though, so they didn't know that was what they had done. Doing it right if they had done it right from the start would have been easy. Trying to make the system secure now, after the fact, is hard. > Are you implying that we should think about DCE or something? There are many things you might want to consider, but I'd think about tacking my tongue to the floor with a staple gun before thinking about DCE in this context. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:42 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:05 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 23:25:35 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA11595 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:25:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05146 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:25:31 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02135 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:22:48 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02131 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:22:48 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04396 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:22:44 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19587; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:18:54 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA09470; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:01:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150501.AAA09470@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: perry@piermont.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:01:12 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809150344.XAA20016@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 14, 98 11:44:50 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi Perry, Clearly I want to pursue this ... It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > linas@linas.org writes: > > Hmm, security ... authentication? privacy/encryption? access control? > > Corba has virtually none of the above. It is more or less a naked RPC > mechanism and lacks all the basics we would now take for granted in a > new protocol. Well, chapter 16 or something like that, of the corba services spec outlines a hundred pages of security stuff, although I agree it appears that no one has implemented the stuff. Not clear why ... too hard, underspecified, not fully baked, too new, whatever. > > Or do you mean that orbs are easy to hack into, are subject to stack > > smashing attacks, etc? > > They probably have all those properties, but more evilly, they have > the bad property that object references are easily guessed. A This I don't understand. That's like saying "once I have the filename, I can find the file", (one I have the inode number, I can find the file?) or "once I have the machine name I can find the DNS entry and the IP number". I don't see anything wrong with that. -- I mean, theyr'e supposed to be easy to find, right? > reference, in corba, is the equivalent of a true name in medieval > magician's lore -- once you know it, the thing named is in your > power. In this instance, once you've guessed an object reference, even > if your connection to the ORB was to permit you to do something > totally legitimate, you may now do illegitimate things. This I don't understand. It's "my" code that would do the check: for example, to modify an account, you first have to establish a session. To establish a session, you'd need to supply a password. You'd get back a session pointer which is either valid, or null if you supplied a bad password. If there's no session pointer, then you can't even query the list of accounts, since there's nothing to query ... so how would break in? Yes, you can break in by sniffing network traffic, and hijacking someone else's session handle. But that's like sniffing network traffic and grabbing clear-text telnet and ftp passwords. Solvable by working on a trusted network, using token ring which minimizes sniffing, or using things like ssh to encrypt. I'm stil very much of a corba novice, but Im trying to learn ... > My recommendation is that we (or rather you, as I haven't had much of > a chance to hack on the code) concentrate on the basic > functionality. In six or eight months, the gnome people will begin to Hmm, well I'm hoping that someone will help out. I figured that corba would be one of the fun things, so I'm itching to jump on it, and saying, gee I should leave some of the fun stuff for others. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:45 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:07 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 23:53:12 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA21993 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10723 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:53:08 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04535 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:32 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04531 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:31 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10577 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:29 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12594 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIn5C-0006Vo-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:18 -0500 To: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> <13821.11815.525448.243939@hexmode.gomr.mms.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 23:51:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mark -Hex- Hershberger's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:54:31 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87ogsic721.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Mark -Hex- Hershberger writes: > The Makefile won't work unless SHELL=/bin/bash for me (Solaris > 2.5.1). That is: > > make motif SHELL=/bin/bash Until we get rid of the bashisms, we should just put SHELL=/bin/bash export SHELL in the top level Makefile. Otherwise this will be an issue for any platform where /bin/sh isn't bash. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:44 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:07 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 23:49:03 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA20662 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:49:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09873 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:49:00 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04246 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:46:56 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04241 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:46:55 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09653 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:46:54 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12582 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:46:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIn0h-0006UQ-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:46:39 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA References: <199809150501.AAA09470@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 23:46:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:01:12 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87sohuc79s.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Well, chapter 16 or something like that, of the corba services spec > outlines a hundred pages of security stuff If I wanted to learn a little more about CORBA, what's the preferred source? Thanks -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:44 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:06 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 23:39:10 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA17161 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:39:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07980 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:39:06 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03047 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:33:38 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03041 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:33:38 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06793 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:33:35 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA20255; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809150433.AAA20255@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: perry@piermont.com, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:01:12 CDT." <199809150501.AAA09470@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:33:27 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > > Corba has virtually none of the above. It is more or less a naked RPC > > mechanism and lacks all the basics we would now take for granted in a > > new protocol. > > Well, chapter 16 or something like that, of the corba services spec > outlines a hundred pages of security stuff, although I agree it > appears that no one has implemented the stuff. Not clear why ... > too hard, underspecified, not fully baked, too new, whatever. All of the above and more. > > > Or do you mean that orbs are easy to hack into, are subject to stack > > > smashing attacks, etc? > > > > They probably have all those properties, but more evilly, they have > > the bad property that object references are easily guessed. A > > This I don't understand. That's like saying "once I have the filename, > I can find the file", (one I have the inode number, I can find the file?) No, it is like saying "once I have the filename, I can WRITE the file". > or "once I have the machine name I can find the DNS entry and the IP > number". I don't see anything wrong with that. -- I mean, theyr'e > supposed to be easy to find, right? I don't think you get the issue. Lets say that I have twenty people connecting to a server, and all of them have access to different objects with different security properties. Some of them should be able to access certain objects, some of them shouldn't. If I guess an object reference, I can then invoke a method on that remote object -- period. > > reference, in corba, is the equivalent of a true name in medieval > > magician's lore -- once you know it, the thing named is in your > > power. In this instance, once you've guessed an object reference, even > > if your connection to the ORB was to permit you to do something > > totally legitimate, you may now do illegitimate things. > > This I don't understand. It's "my" code that would do the check: for > example, to modify an account, you first have to establish a session. > To establish a session, you'd need to supply a password. This isn't how corba works -- it has no notion of "logging on". You can layer that on top, of course -- I could build things such that when I open up my connection I only have a reference to an object which gives me other references when I give it a password, but once I have a connection to the ORB, if I can guess an object reference, I can frob that object. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:42 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:04 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 22:58:02 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id WAA27982 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:58:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA31314 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:58:01 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA32055 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:48:56 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA31944 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:46:55 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28618 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:45:11 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA20016; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809150344.XAA20016@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:08:58 CDT." <199809150308.WAA08934@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:44:50 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Hmm, security ... authentication? privacy/encryption? access control? Corba has virtually none of the above. It is more or less a naked RPC mechanism and lacks all the basics we would now take for granted in a new protocol. > Or do you mean that orbs are easy to hack into, are subject to stack > smashing attacks, etc? They probably have all those properties, but more evilly, they have the bad property that object references are easily guessed. A reference, in corba, is the equivalent of a true name in medieval magician's lore -- once you know it, the thing named is in your power. In this instance, once you've guessed an object reference, even if your connection to the ORB was to permit you to do something totally legitimate, you may now do illegitimate things. > If the former, yeah, I guess one has to hack in something or other. > I have no clue on how corba deals with sockets, i.e. how much overhead > .e.g. SSL might add ... etc. SSL isn't even sufficient, sadly, given the object reference stealing issue. My recommendation is that we (or rather you, as I haven't had much of a chance to hack on the code) concentrate on the basic functionality. In six or eight months, the gnome people will begin to discover Corba's problems, and might even start engineering solutions. Better to let others deal with huge problems like this, given that just the application itself is such a hard nut to crack. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:39 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:02 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 21:32:57 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA11610 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:32:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10837 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:32:55 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25567 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:30:34 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25562 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:30:34 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10562 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:30:34 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19209; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:26:41 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id WAA08934; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:08:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150308.WAA08934@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: perry@piermont.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:08:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, rlb@cs.utexas.edu, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <199809141422.KAA05242@jekyll.piermont.com> from "Perry E. Metzger" at Sep 14, 98 10:22:34 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Perry E. Metzger said: > > > linas@linas.org writes: > > I view corba as a quick & elegent way of getting a multi-user mode, > > and instant network-transaparency, so that e.g. the engine can > > live on one machine, and the gui gets used on another. > > Given that corba has literally no security at all, this is also a > quick and easy way of providing hackers with the ability to trash your > personal financial manager. > > At least corba run on one machine over unix domain sockets can't be > hacked. Once you start running over the network, forgetaboutit. Hmm, security ... authentication? privacy/encryption? access control? Or do you mean that orbs are easy to hack into, are subject to stack smashing attacks, etc? If the former, yeah, I guess one has to hack in something or other. I have no clue on how corba deals with sockets, i.e. how much overhead .e.g. SSL might add ... etc. --linas > > Perry > ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:39 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:18:01 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 21:26:46 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA08257 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08220 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:21:23 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23794 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:16:48 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23787 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:16:46 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06761 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:16:46 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19189; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:12:50 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id VAA08878; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:55:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199809150255.VAA08878@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:55:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <874suae71v.fsf@raven.localhost> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 14, 98 04:08:28 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > Brian Sanders writes: > > > gnucash: startup-file is /opt/gnucash/share/scm/startup.scm guile: > > Stack overflow > > > > I am using guile 1.2-6 and lesstif. I may investigate further as > > time permits. > > Linas had this problem, but I'm not sure if he resolved it. It may > actually be a guile 1.2 problem. FWIW I'm using a guile 1.3 snapshot I punted and went to version 1.3 --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:36 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:58 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 17:48:13 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA09711 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:48:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01633 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:48:12 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01946 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:46:03 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01942 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:46:02 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01241 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:46:03 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-82-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.219.33]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09682 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:08:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIfrJ-00051Q-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:08:29 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <13821.11815.525448.243939@hexmode.gomr.mms.gov> <98091410341802.00189@fidessa> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 16:08:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: Brian Sanders's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:34:57 -0700" Message-ID: <874suae71v.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Brian Sanders writes: > gnucash: startup-file is /opt/gnucash/share/scm/startup.scm guile: > Stack overflow > > I am using guile 1.2-6 and lesstif. I may investigate further as > time permits. Linas had this problem, but I'm not sure if he resolved it. It may actually be a guile 1.2 problem. FWIW I'm using a guile 1.3 snapshot (Debian version 1998.08.24-1) here. I'd be happy to fix this, but I'm not sure I'll have time to track it down real soon. I'm also using lesstif 0.86.0 (Debian version 0.86.0-1), though I've also been using Motif. It's much faster right now for large data sets. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:34 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:56 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 12:37:36 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA02054 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:37:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00654 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:37:35 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09107 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:33:42 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09101 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:33:41 -0500 Received: from fidessa.vingulf.dyn.ml.org (dt064n6a.san.rr.com [204.210.62.106]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31790 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:33:36 -0500 Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by fidessa.vingulf.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05260; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:35:20 -0700 From: Brian Sanders Reply-To: brians@ucsd.edu To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:34:57 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.8.0] Content-Type: text/plain References: <13821.11815.525448.243939@hexmode.gomr.mms.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98091410341802.00189@fidessa> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: brians@ucsd.edu Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 I got it to compile fine from the cvs using "make motif", but when I try to run it, I get gnucash: startup-file is /opt/gnucash/share/scm/startup.scm guile: Stack overflow I am using guile 1.2-6 and lesstif. I may investigate further as time permits. Brian ===================================================== Brian Sanders, Software Engineer 619.452.6450 Vingulf Associates PO Box 13641 La Jolla, CA http://www.vingulf.dyn.ml.org ==================================================== ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:23 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:45 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 10:00:04 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id KAA24786 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:00:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26727 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:00:01 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29057 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:58:51 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29045 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:58:46 -0500 Received: from mail.gomr.mms.gov ([161.160.99.30]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25663 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:58:07 -0500 Received: from hexmode.gomr.mms.gov (hexmode [161.160.125.93]) by mail.gomr.mms.gov (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22838; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:54:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from hershbem@localhost) by hexmode.gomr.mms.gov (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA13123; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:54:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark -Hex- Hershberger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13821.11815.525448.243939@hexmode.gomr.mms.gov> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:54:31 -0500 (CDT) To: Linas Vepstas CC: GnuCash Developers Mailing list Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! In-Reply-To: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> References: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.2.1 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Linas Vepstas writes: > I've slammed together a new tar.gz release of GnuCash, numbered > 1.1.17 and put it up at the usual location The Makefile won't work unless SHELL=/bin/bash for me (Solaris 2.5.1). That is: make motif SHELL=/bin/bash Thanks. Hex. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:21 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:44 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 09:24:54 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA03250 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:24:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07449 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:24:52 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA26666 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:23:25 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26655 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:23:21 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06725 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:23:19 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA05242; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809141422.KAA05242@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:24:58 CDT." <199809140624.BAA04216@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:22:34 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > I view corba as a quick & elegent way of getting a multi-user mode, > and instant network-transaparency, so that e.g. the engine can > live on one machine, and the gui gets used on another. Given that corba has literally no security at all, this is also a quick and easy way of providing hackers with the ability to trash your personal financial manager. At least corba run on one machine over unix domain sockets can't be hacked. Once you start running over the network, forgetaboutit. Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:18 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:41 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 01:51:03 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA07557 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:51:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA31285 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:51:02 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA26713 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:48:58 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26709 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:48:57 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA30419 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:48:58 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-79-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.176]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05816 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:48:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zISRJ-00036h-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:48:45 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809140645.BAA04405@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 01:48:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:45:56 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87hfybmboy.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > I've one more request of every/anyone working on this code: > Please include a "what's new/announce" file with your patches. Will do... -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:15 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:37 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 01:09:47 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA29804 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:09:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18890 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:09:45 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23729 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:07:52 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA23719 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:07:51 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18500 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:07:50 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA17131; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:04:02 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA04405; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:45:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199809140645.BAA04405@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:45:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87vhmrmf5w.fsf@raven.localhost> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 14, 98 00:33:47 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi Rob, It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > Linas Vepstas writes: > > > This is what I hope to be a water-shed release. It adds significantly > > new function that I think/hope will finally make it usable for far > > more people: ... > > -- This release includes the "final" (latest? best?) version of the > > guile-based startup code from Rob Browning. In theory, we can now > > start dealing with user-preferences and custom configuration. > > This stuff is still likely to change a lot -- I've already realized > that I made some things more complex than they should have been, and > others too simple, but other than getting guile to build, I think the > current guile stuff is unobtrusive enough to ignore, and the fact that > it's there, and that we have a load-path may make it easier for others > to try hacking the scheme stuff too... > > Other things I plan to work on the next time I get time: ... I've one more request of every/anyone working on this code: Please include a "what's new/announce" file with your patches. When I announce a release like this, I tend to hype up what I did (cause its fresh in my mind) and give short play to what others did. mostly because I forget/cant remember/don't understand. So, to avoid this embarasement, please include text, a few lines or a paragraph, suitable for announcement. patch either the CHANGES file, or create new file called ANNOUNCE ... I promise to give this stuff airplay during an announce (thanks rob). --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:10 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:32 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 00:48:46 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA25210 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:48:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12811 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:48:45 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22653 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:46:54 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22646 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:46:53 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12507 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:46:52 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17079; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:43:04 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id BAA04216; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:24:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199809140624.BAA04216@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:24:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <874sueehdp.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 11, 98 11:36:18 am X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > > Stephan Lichtenauer writes: > > > yes, but if I want to write a C/C++ plugin, or to separate the ui > > from the engin e encapsulating the engine/the plugin in CORBA would > > simplify things (e.g. for DCE, i.e. backend not on the same > > computer as the frontend for example, as I have already mentioned), > > or am I missing the point here? Excuse me, but I am really new to > > the whole GNOME/GTK/GUILE stuff, I have only worked with DSOM/OS2 > > (being also CORBA-compliant) for some time. I view corba as a quick & elegent way of getting a multi-user mode, and instant network-transaparency, so that e.g. the engine can live on one machine, and the gui gets used on another. Someone on this mailing list talked about doing some work on this just last week, but I have not heard more. As rob points out, the guile/perl/swig stuff serves a different prupose: they allow quick and dirty hacks (or big & clean ones) to extend the features in the gui, and/or to modify how things work. So, for example: -- to get a stock quote form a web site, you could: o write code in C, hook it up to a menu to invoke it, and then push the data into the engine via the usual engine api. No corba required; just lots of recompiles to debug it. o write the code in scheme or perl or tcl, hook it up to a menu to invoke it, and then push the data into the engine via the usual engine api. debugging is fast: no need to recompile anything. In theory, the second will be a lot easier than the first ... except that the second is not exactly ready ... --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:16 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:38 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 01:21:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id BAA02242 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22464 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:21:43 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA24766 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:19:26 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24749 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:19:19 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA21430 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:19:06 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-79-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.176]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05736 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:18:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIRyK-0002vV-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:18:48 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA References: <199809140624.BAA04216@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 01:18:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:24:58 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87n283md2v.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 40 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > In theory, the second will be a lot easier than the first ... except > that the second is not exactly ready ... Other than hooking up the menu, you could do this now from your .gnucash/config.user file. Let's say you have a perl script that can get a stock quote when given the symbol as its argument and then print the value on standard-output. I think there are probably more elegant ways to do this if you get some of the fancier guile libs, but you could also just do something like this (error checking code omitted): ;; ~/.gnucash/config.user ;; ... (define (my-get-quote symbol) (let* ((fetcher (open-input-pipe (string-append "~/.bin/quote " symbol))) (result (read fetcher)) (close fetcher) result))) (display (string-append "Current value of " symbol " is ")) (display (my-get-quote "XXXX")) (newline) ;; ... which would would print the value of a given stock every time you started gnucash. See "info guile-ref" for other useful functions. Since the embedded guile now has all of the engine available as functions of the same name (via swig), you could also do something with the stock value -- though the interface is currently quite low-level. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:03 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:26 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 00:15:48 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA16513 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:15:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03567 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:15:47 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA20303 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:13:59 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20299 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:13:58 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02809 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:13:57 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16887; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:10:06 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA03910; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:51:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199809140551.AAA03910@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: from-scratch build report: failure To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:51:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: magnus@alum.mit.edu, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87af43fmjy.fsf@raven.localhost> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 13, 98 09:36:01 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > Daniel R Risacher writes: > > 4. On an unrelated note, I inadvertently deleted my real > > 'finances.xacc' file, and my backup media (zip disk) was corrupt. > > I undeleted it, but it was damaged. Most of the file is intact, > > but 1k of it was zeroed out. It won't load anymore. Do any tools > > exist for salvaging this data? I *think* I still have paper > > records for everything, but I'm loathe to re-enter all that data. > > I feel like I lost a year of my life! > > Sorry, this sucks. You should probably start by looking into > src/engine/FileIO.c. You can probably hack this code up to find the > problem in your file and fix it. When one of us gets around to > putting the (scheme-form <-> binary-data) translator, then you might > be able to use that, but I haven't had time yet. As of v 1.1.15 or so, gnucash has also been generating journal files that should actually be useful. The files use names like yourfile.xac.19980911131115.log (YYYYMMDDHHMMSS) and I think they contain a sufficient amount of ascii, human-readable data to reconstruct damaged files. There are no tools for actually accomplishing this, but they should be relatively easy to write (e.g. in perl or scheme, -- easier than trying to understand FileIO.c which is pretty damn miserable). --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:11 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:34 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 00:52:18 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA25927 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:52:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13920 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:52:17 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22869 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:50:42 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22865 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:50:41 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13664 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:50:41 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-79-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.176]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05650 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:50:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIRWu-0002kZ-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:50:28 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 00:50:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: Linas Vepstas's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:45:20 -0500" Message-ID: <87sohvmee4.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Linas Vepstas writes: Minor src tree bug: cvs delete xacc.in -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:02 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:25 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 00:09:07 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA14359 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01339 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:09:06 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA20029 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:07:18 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20025 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:07:17 -0500 Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01094 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:07:16 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16776 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:03:27 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA03881 for gnucash-devel@gnucash.org; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:45:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:45:20 -0500 From: Linas Vepstas Message-Id: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi all, I've slammed together a new tar.gz release of GnuCash, numbered 1.1.17 and put it up at the usual location (http://linas.org/linux/xacc/gnucash-1.1.17.tar.gz) This is what I hope to be a water-shed release. It adds significantly new function that I think/hope will finally make it usable for far more people: -- First, you can now limit the displayed transactions to lie within a pair of dates (shown in a window at the bottom of the register; that window is directly editable, and the usual accelerator keys should work (+/- to change day, [] to change month etc. see the help menu).) When window is first opened, a default of 30 transactions are shown; this is overriden with the dates. -- Next, you can now sort these transactions by date, by amount, by id number, by memo, and by (transaciton) description. -- Finally, it now seems right to really call this a beta, which means it works for me. Seriously, there are bugs I suppose, but I have learned how to avoid them, so it seems OK to me. Except for the fact that I'm sick of coding and I'll scream if I have to fix another bug, it otherwise does seem appropriate to declare that bug hunting season officially begins today. (There are a couple of "well-known" bugs -- gnome won't build, and QIF import is as busted as its ever been in 1.1.x because we aren't yet merging trasnactions.) ======================================== Now for some development notes: -- This release includes the "final" (latest? best?) version of the guile-based startup code from Rob Browning. In theory, we can now start dealing with user-preferences and custom configuration. -- Rob includes a rework of the build process which among other things rebuilds the scheme and guile bindings. Now is a good time to start playing with perl scripts into the engine. -- The sorting & date-limits were added to the engine via a new "Query" class, which implements a very simple, dumb query engine. -- I've looked at the Corba GL Ledger spec, and made minor tweaks to the engine API to bring it closer in line in terms of function. For example, the Query engine is called "HistorySpec" or some such in the corba RFP. Unfortunately, that RFP is *very* incomplete and underspecified, and is likely to change in large and significant ways. So given my gut feel as to where that spec seems to be heading, I think we have pretty good overlap. -- The gnome build is broke. The new features show up in the motif version only; however, all of the hard work gets done in gui-independent code, so adding these to the gnome version should be mostly a matter of adding menus & menu entries. (Jeremy, this ones for you). Rotsa Ruck, LinaS ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:05 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:28 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 14 00:35:48 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA21840 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:35:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09382 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:35:46 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22182 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:34:01 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22168 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:34:00 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08693 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:34:00 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-79-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.176]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05630 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:33:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIRGl-0002KE-00; Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:33:47 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: gnucash-1.1.17 is now Beta! References: <199809140545.AAA03881@shadygrove.linas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 14 Sep 1998 00:33:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: Linas Vepstas's message of "Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:45:20 -0500" Message-ID: <87vhmrmf5w.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 50 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Linas Vepstas writes: > This is what I hope to be a water-shed release. It adds significantly > new function that I think/hope will finally make it usable for far > more people: Nice features... > (There are a couple of "well-known" bugs -- gnome won't build, and > QIF import is as busted as its ever been in 1.1.x because we aren't yet > merging trasnactions.) I think the GNOME/Gtk version will have to wait for the next release. Even if it were working, right now the GNOME register is too hacked up to put out there as a real interface. > -- This release includes the "final" (latest? best?) version of the > guile-based startup code from Rob Browning. In theory, we can now > start dealing with user-preferences and custom configuration. This stuff is still likely to change a lot -- I've already realized that I made some things more complex than they should have been, and others too simple, but other than getting guile to build, I think the current guile stuff is unobtrusive enough to ignore, and the fact that it's there, and that we have a load-path may make it easier for others to try hacking the scheme stuff too... Other things I plan to work on the next time I get time: -c command To execute a command at startup, of particular interest would be -c '(load "myscript.scm")'. Hooks. So you can start attaching scheme code to various events. Scheme text file input and output (for those who want or need a text format). Graphs (eventually?) > -- The gnome build is broke. The new features show up in the motif > version only; however, all of the hard work gets done in > gui-independent code, so adding these to the gnome version should > be mostly a matter of adding menus & menu entries. (Jeremy, this > ones for you). Actually, I think Ted is also affected by these changes. I believe he's now taking over work on the GNOME register. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:40:00 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 13 21:38:32 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id VAA18439 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:38:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22108 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:38:30 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA10357 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:36:28 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10353 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:36:27 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21723 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:36:27 -0500 Received: from raven.localhost (mail@dial-79-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.176]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04626; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:36:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by raven.localhost with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zIOUj-0001Yt-00; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:36:01 -0500 To: magnus@alum.mit.edu Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: from-scratch build report: failure References: <199809131955.TAA22379@risacher.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Browning Date: 13 Sep 1998 21:36:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: Daniel R Risacher's message of "Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:55:28 GMT" Message-ID: <87af43fmjy.fsf@raven.localhost> Lines: 35 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Daniel R Risacher writes: > 2. 'make gnome' runs for a fair bit, but eventually dies with: > > gcc -Wp,-MD,obj/gnome/RegWindow.d.tmp -c -O2 -Wall -I/usr/X11R6/include -I.. -I../.. -I../engine -I../register -I../guile -I./../../include -I/usr/local/gnucash-cvs/include -I/usr/local/gnucash-cvs/lib/gnome-libs/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/gimp-cvs-new/lib/glib/include -I/usr/local/gimp-cvs-new/include -DGNOME -o obj/gnome/RegWindow.o RegWindow.c > RegWindow.c:43: Ledger.h: No such file or directory > RegWindow.c:788: warning: `#ifdef' argument starts with a digit Gnome doesn't work right now, and probably won't for a little while. The motif/lesstif version should be mostly fine, though I can't actually enter useful transactions at the moment (they're all self-referential). I've mentioned it to Linas, and I presume he'll get to it soon. > 3. 'make motif' seems to build ok, but the final product won't run: I believe this is a bug that should be fixed when Linas integrates my latest patch (I sent it today, so expect it soon). > 4. On an unrelated note, I inadvertently deleted my real > 'finances.xacc' file, and my backup media (zip disk) was corrupt. > I undeleted it, but it was damaged. Most of the file is intact, > but 1k of it was zeroed out. It won't load anymore. Do any tools > exist for salvaging this data? I *think* I still have paper > records for everything, but I'm loathe to re-enter all that data. > I feel like I lost a year of my life! Sorry, this sucks. You should probably start by looking into src/engine/FileIO.c. You can probably hack this code up to find the problem in your file and fix it. When one of us gets around to putting the (scheme-form <-> binary-data) translator, then you might be able to use that, but I haven't had time yet. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:58 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:20 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Sun Sep 13 20:02:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id UAA07138 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:02:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22790 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:02:12 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA02618 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:58:14 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02614 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:58:13 -0500 Received: from risacher.worldnet.att.net (125.bridgeton-11.mo.dial-access.att.net [12.67.18.125]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21478 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:58:12 -0500 Received: (from magnus@localhost) by risacher.worldnet.att.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22379; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:55:28 GMT Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:55:28 GMT Message-Id: <199809131955.TAA22379@risacher.worldnet.att.net> From: Daniel R Risacher To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: from-scratch build report: failure Reply-to: magnus@alum.mit.edu Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Today I checked out a current gnucash tree from CVS and tried to build from scratch. I don't have Qt, so I didn't even attempt to build the Qt target. I do have lesstif and gnome installed sucessfully, and I'm writing to report my experiences trying to build gnucash from the CVS sources. 1. It was a little irritating to have to get SWIG to build it, but I supposes that anyone who compiles things for themselves needs to have all the right tools. 2. 'make gnome' runs for a fair bit, but eventually dies with: gcc -Wp,-MD,obj/gnome/RegWindow.d.tmp -c -O2 -Wall -I/usr/X11R6/include -I.. -I../.. -I../engine -I../register -I../guile -I./../../include -I/usr/local/gnucash-cvs/include -I/usr/local/gnucash-cvs/lib/gnome-libs/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/gimp-cvs-new/lib/glib/include -I/usr/local/gimp-cvs-new/include -DGNOME -o obj/gnome/RegWindow.o RegWindow.c RegWindow.c:43: Ledger.h: No such file or directory RegWindow.c:788: warning: `#ifdef' argument starts with a digit 3. 'make motif' seems to build ok, but the final product won't run: xacc# ./gnucash gnucash: startup-file is ./share/scm/startup.scm gnucash: [D] handling arg --startup-file gnucash: [D] handling arg --share-dir gnucash: [D] handling arg --config-dir gnucash: [D] handling arg --load-path gnucash: [D] files to open: () gnucash: [D] loading system configuration gnucash: [W] failure loading ./etc/config guile: Unbound variable: gnucash:shutdown 4. On an unrelated note, I inadvertently deleted my real 'finances.xacc' file, and my backup media (zip disk) was corrupt. I undeleted it, but it was damaged. Most of the file is intact, but 1k of it was zeroed out. It won't load anymore. Do any tools exist for salvaging this data? I *think* I still have paper records for everything, but I'm loathe to re-enter all that data. I feel like I lost a year of my life! -- I fully intend to live forever. Or die trying. Daniel Risacher magnus@alum.mit.edu ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:43 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:05 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Sep 11 03:12:16 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id DAA08934 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02764 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:12:11 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA26790 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:57 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26786 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:57 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org ([194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02681 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:56 -0500 Received: from Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net ([195.38.156.107]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA02367 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:10:47 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:14:42 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98091011270601.00214@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Rob wrote: >Right. The Guile stuff is coming right along, and the way things are >going, Guile will become the extension language that's actually >physically embedded into gnucash. > >But we'll also support perl/tcl/tk/whatever via SWIG, so you can write >scripts that do stuff to your databases, and you'll also be able to >launch perl/tcl/tk/whatever scripts from gnucash via guile to collect >stock quotes (or whatever), and then parse the output and take >whatever actions you like. yes, but if I want to write a C/C++ plugin, or to separate the ui from the engin e encapsulating the engine/the plugin in CORBA would simplify things (e.g. for DCE, i.e. backend not on the same computer as the frontend for example, as I have already mentioned), or am I missing the point here? Excuse me, but I am really new to the whole GNOME/GTK/GUILE stuff, I have only worked with DSOM/OS2 (being also CORBA-compliant) for some time. Regards Stephan ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:43 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:17:06 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Fri Sep 11 03:12:16 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id DAA08933 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02763 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:12:11 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA26782 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:49 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26778 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:48 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org ([194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02670 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:10:47 -0500 Received: from Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net ([195.38.156.107]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA02362 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:10:43 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:45:34 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98091011143800.00214@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi >Last time I talked to the xquote author, he explicitly forbade >me/us/gnucash from using his code. GnuCash is GPL'ed, xquote is not, >and until the owner of xquote allows us to use his code, we cannot. > >I will accept any code as long as you wrote it and/or its derived from >gpl'ed code by you. So if you write this import filter yourself, >from scratch, I can use it. If you send me hacked up Xinvest code, >then I cannot accept it. ok, of course I would not have given you the code without talking to the Xinvest-author first. Fact is that we already spoke about me extending Xinvest/Xquote (it was before I found GnuCash), and he was (of course) ok. Indeed I did not receive an answer on my latest question to him about porting Xquote to GnuCash, so there seems to be no simple way... Regards Stephan ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:34 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:56 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 10 00:01:25 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA21174 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:01:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18087 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:01:22 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10029 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:58:40 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10025 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:58:39 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17203 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:58:39 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06974; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:55:11 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA22966; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199809100535.AAA22966@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA To: s_lichtenauer@muenchen.org (Stephan Lichtenauer) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <98090717554100.00197@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> from "Stephan Lichtenauer" at Sep 9, 98 12:25:32 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Hi, It's been rumoured that Stephan Lichtenauer said: > > hi! > > I would like to help with GnuCash development, but I am new to the mailing list > and I have not found any archives on the webpages so please could you help me?! http://linas.org/linux/xacc/projects.html > Please excuse me if I should bore you with things already done! > > I would port Xquote to download quotes from web pages (Yahoo, CNNFN etc.) if the Last time I talked to the xquote author, he explicitly forbade me/us/gnucash from using his code. GnuCash is GPL'ed, xquote is not, and until the owner of xquote allows us to use his code, we cannot. > author agrees and perhaps write an import filter for Xinvest .inv-files. I will accept any code as long as you wrote it and/or its derived from gpl'ed code by you. So if you write this import filter yourself, from scratch, I can use it. If you send me hacked up Xinvest code, then I cannot accept it. I am so sorry that you picked xquote/xinvest as the topic to talk about ... normally, we are nice, happy freindly people here. > As far > as I know there is no one currently developing the quotes-module; I only have > found some scripts to convert Yahoo-ASCII files in the current CVS tree. Right, no one is currently working on this. > I would like to realise this as a plugin but I do not know if there is already a > defined interface for plug ins resp. something under design. If it is not, I > would propose to use CORBA for it (no GNOME dependent code, only some interface > that could be run as well with e.g. KDE) because it could encapsulate perfectly > the already object-oriented design of the engine and would include more > sophisticated features such as DCE (e.g. dedicated database servers > etc.). I like corba ... >I see > the need for a plugin interface in any case since it would allow to implement > features like technical stock analysis, visualisation etc. without the need to > change GnuCash itself, ie GnuCash could become a financial "Gimp". We've sort-of talked about having perl/guile/scheme as the plug-in interface, but its all very experimental right now. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:35 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:58 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 10 00:35:52 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA01386 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26468 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:50 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12388 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:34:07 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12383 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:34:07 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25641 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:34:06 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-112-4.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.190.148]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19100; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:33:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zGzMj-0003PY-00; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:33:57 -0500 To: Stephan Lichtenauer Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA References: <98090717554100.00197@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> From: Rob Browning Date: 10 Sep 1998 00:33:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: Stephan Lichtenauer's message of "Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:25:32 +0200" Message-ID: <87zpc8fs56.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Stephan Lichtenauer writes: > without the need to change GnuCash itself, ie GnuCash could become a > financial "Gimp". Actually I prefer to think of the GIMP as a "graphical" Emacs, which would make gnucash the financial Emacs... But that's my bias showing :> (Regardless, we're in good company with GNOME and the GIMP in choosing to embed Guile.) -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:34 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:57 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Thu Sep 10 00:33:14 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id AAA00636 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:33:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25522 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:33:13 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12219 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:31:21 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12214 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:31:20 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25060 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:31:20 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-112-4.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.190.148]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19095; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:31:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zGzK0-0003PW-00; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:31:08 -0500 To: s_lichtenauer@muenchen.org (Stephan Lichtenauer) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA References: <199809100535.AAA22966@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 10 Sep 1998 00:31:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:16 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <874sugh6ub.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.43/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > >I see > > the need for a plugin interface in any case since it would allow to implement > > features like technical stock analysis, visualisation etc. without the need to > > change GnuCash itself, ie GnuCash could become a financial "Gimp". > > We've sort-of talked about having perl/guile/scheme as the plug-in > interface, but its all very experimental right now. Right. The Guile stuff is coming right along, and the way things are going, Guile will become the extension language that's actually physically embedded into gnucash. But we'll also support perl/tcl/tk/whatever via SWIG, so you can write scripts that do stuff to your databases, and you'll also be able to launch perl/tcl/tk/whatever scripts from gnucash via guile to collect stock quotes (or whatever), and then parse the output and take whatever actions you like. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:32 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:54 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 9 16:07:25 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA20451 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:07:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16127 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:07:23 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04863 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:50 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04858 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:49 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14887 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:48 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-72-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.64]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16861 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zGrO1-0002qG-00; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:02:45 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Upcoming fixes to make process (user visible changes). From: Rob Browning Date: 09 Sep 1998 16:02:45 -0500 Message-ID: <87yartq9sa.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 61 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Linas pointed out to me that my latest patch had some problems if you tried to use --prefix in any way that wasn't the way I was using it :> To fix that, and to fix a bunch of other stuff, I've modified the build process again. Some of this is user-visible. We have two new top level targets: gnome-static and install-opt. You'll use "make install" when you want to do a normal FSSTND /usr/ or /usr/local style install where everything scatters across the filesystem in foo/gnucash/* directories. You'll use "make install-opt" when you want a /usr/local/opt/gnucash style install where everything just installs into local bin, doc, share, etc dirs. I couldn't think of a better way to handle this, or I would have used it. So the two most likely sets of build instructions would be as follows: For a full system install (gnucash is installed as part of the system): ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc make motif make install For an /opt style install ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/opt/gnucash make motif make install-opt I've also renamed all the binary names from xacc to gnucash, and I've made them more consistent (this helps in automating the makefile), so depending on your make target, you'll produce: gnucash.motif gnucash.motif.static gnucash.gnome gnucash.gnome.static gnucash.qt Whichever one you produce last ends up the target of a local gnucash.bin symlink, so that you can always run the local ./gnucash script to see the last flavor that you built. The ./gnucash script also handles making sure that you're using files from the source dir rather than an install tree just like the old ./xacc script did. Finally, I've re-worked things so that it's harder to accidentally install a binary that's stale with respect to your install destination, and I've eliminated the need for the wrapper script in the install tree. Unfortunately this did require that "make install*" re-build the binary during the install process because it can't know where the one startup file that it has to know about internally is going to be until you pick an install style. All this may not be perfect, but I think it's better than what we had before, and we can always improve it once we figure out something better. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:29 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:51 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 9 12:27:34 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id MAA10489 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:27:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07278 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:27:32 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13904 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:26:46 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13882 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:26:34 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07045 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:26:34 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (andare.fugue.com [204.152.188.83]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA15008; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA09644; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809091726.KAA09644@andare.fugue.com> To: perry@piermont.com cc: linas@linas.org, rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Much improved installation coming. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:57:22 EDT." <199809091357.JAA20689@jekyll.piermont.com> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:26:24 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > You guys ought to move to the "many CVS committers" model so you don't > slow each other down... That's got my vote. At a bare minimum, Rob and Linas should be able to commit independently. Going to multiple committers does increase confusion, but it also increases progress, and as people get used to the process, the confusion becomes less of a problem. _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:26 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:49 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 9 08:59:05 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id IAA07318 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:59:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05915 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:59:00 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25140 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:57:41 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25126 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:57:38 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (jekyll.piermont.com [206.1.51.15]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05565 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:57:39 -0500 Received: from jekyll.piermont.com (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by jekyll.piermont.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA20689; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809091357.JAA20689@jekyll.piermont.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Much improved installation coming. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:38:45 CDT." <199809080838.DAA10376@shadygrove.linas.org> Reply-To: perry@piermont.com X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:57:22 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > Both the Mo/Lestif and Gnome/GTK versions of Gnucash work with guile, > > and I've cleaned up the startup procedure a *lot*. > > It may take me a few days at least to digest the patch. You guys ought to move to the "many CVS committers" model so you don't slow each other down... Perry ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:25 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:47 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Wed Sep 9 06:32:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id GAA08523 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:32:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29369 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:32:44 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA08602 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:31:57 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08597 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:31:55 -0500 Received: from ns0.muenchen.org ([194.95.192.251]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29262 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:31:51 -0500 Received: from Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net ([195.38.156.106]) by ns0.muenchen.org (8.9.1/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA04131 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:31:14 +0200 From: Stephan Lichtenauer To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Quotes, Plug-Ins and CORBA Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:25:32 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98090717554100.00197@Sven.Ehret.moving-people.net> Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 hi! I would like to help with GnuCash development, but I am new to the mailing list and I have not found any archives on the webpages so please could you help me?! Please excuse me if I should bore you with things already done! I would port Xquote to download quotes from web pages (Yahoo, CNNFN etc.) if the author agrees and perhaps write an import filter for Xinvest .inv-files. As far as I know there is no one currently developing the quotes-module; I only have found some scripts to convert Yahoo-ASCII files in the current CVS tree. I would like to realise this as a plugin but I do not know if there is already a defined interface for plug ins resp. something under design. If it is not, I would propose to use CORBA for it (no GNOME dependent code, only some interface that could be run as well with e.g. KDE) because it could encapsulate perfectly the already object-oriented design of the engine and would include more sophisticated features such as DCE (e.g. dedicated database servers etc.). I see the need for a plugin interface in any case since it would allow to implement features like technical stock analysis, visualisation etc. without the need to change GnuCash itself, ie GnuCash could become a financial "Gimp". Regards Stephan Lichtenauer s_lichtenauer@muenchen.org ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:23 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:45 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 23:47:24 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA05451 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:47:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32502 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:47:22 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27810 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:46:51 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27805 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:46:49 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32462 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:46:49 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04159; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:43:26 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA15365; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:23:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199809090523.AAA15365@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:23:04 -0500 (CDT) Cc: linas@linas.org, gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87g1e2wfu9.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 8, 98 02:43:10 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > linas@linas.org writes: > > > what's performance like if stdout >> /dev/null ? Is it the debug print > > statements that are slowing things down? > > I just checked out the your latest fixes. I think it's much better > now in behavior and my initial impression is that it's also better in > performance. I'll try to do something substantial with it soon and > let you know for sure. > > Nice work. Thanks, It was more work than I expected. --linas. ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:22 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:45 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 23:46:45 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id XAA05157 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:46:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32457 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:46:44 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27717 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:45:34 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27712 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:45:32 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32328 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:45:32 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04155; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:42:09 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id AAA15352; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:21:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199809090521.AAA15352@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? To: tbt@tish.net (Trent Tuggle) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:21:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <35F58AE3.E3B7C51D@tish.net> from "Trent Tuggle" at Sep 8, 98 03:52:03 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Trent Tuggle said: > A scaleable solution would be to have the concept of a 'current > period' for viewing -- ie. set the current view to "the past 6 months" > (somehow...) and then all windows would only select data from this > range... > > I would like to see that because when trying to review a months worth > of transactions, the scrolling can get to be frustrating! Right. Now that the rgister finally seems to be working satisfactorily, I guess that's the next top-of-the-list item. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:18 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:40 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 14:50:35 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id OAA18540 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03019 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:50:32 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05815 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:49:36 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05807 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:49:34 -0500 Received: from quantum.tish.net (quantum.tish.net [206.55.96.46]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02232 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:49:34 -0500 Received: from tish.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quantum.tish.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00785 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:52:04 -0400 Message-ID: <35F58AE3.E3B7C51D@tish.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:52:03 -0400 From: Trent Tuggle Organization: TISH Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? References: <199809080757.CAA10203@shadygrove.linas.org> <87soi2wq8h.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Rob Browing wrote: > Though I don't know how much work it would be (probably a lot), it > would be nice to re-organize things so that the UI only knows about > the bits that are currently on-screen (+- a border region), and it > just requests more info whenever it gets "exposures" that uncover new > parts of the data-set. It would totally ignore any changes that are > outside it's "window", and it would dump any representations of things > not on-screen when it re-locates. This would scale much better. Linus wrote: > Well, there are several tradeoffs. doing this would crater scrolling, as > this would require going back to the engine and fetching data from there. > If, e.g. we ever get an SQL engine, every move of the scroll-bar would > cascade a bunch of sql quereies. Yuck. A scaleable solution would be to have the concept of a 'current period' for viewing -- ie. set the current view to "the past 6 months" (somehow...) and then all windows would only select data from this range... That would be extremely scalable. Use it only for viewing: new data could still be entered. The functionality seems like it would be useful elsewhere (ie. do a report on the current period; whatever...) I would like to see that because when trying to review a months worth of transactions, the scrolling can get to be frustrating! -Trent Tuggle ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:17 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:40 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 14:45:54 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id OAA15910 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:45:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01392 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:45:53 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04936 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:43:17 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04932 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:43:16 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00086 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:43:16 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-72-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.64]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11052; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:43:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zGTfS-0002G1-00; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:43:10 -0500 To: linas@linas.org Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? References: <199809062051.PAA29350@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 08 Sep 1998 14:43:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:51:38 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87g1e2wfu9.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > what's performance like if stdout >> /dev/null ? Is it the debug print > statements that are slowing things down? I just checked out the your latest fixes. I think it's much better now in behavior and my initial impression is that it's also better in performance. I'll try to do something substantial with it soon and let you know for sure. Nice work. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:11 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:34 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 11:00:43 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id LAA05283 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:00:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22916 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:00:41 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10929 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:58:47 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10924 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:58:46 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22038 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:58:46 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-72-16.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.254.64]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09806 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:58:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zGQAC-000285-00; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:58:40 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? References: <199809080757.CAA10203@shadygrove.linas.org> From: Rob Browning Date: 08 Sep 1998 10:58:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: linas@linas.org's message of "Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:57:30 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <87soi2wq8h.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 62 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 linas@linas.org writes: > Well, there are several tradeoffs. doing this would crater > scrolling, as this would require going back to the engine and > fetching data from there. If, e.g. we ever get an SQL engine, every > move of the scroll-bar would cascade a bunch of sql quereies. Yuck. This is what I had been thinking of. I hadn't really thought about it a lot, but I didn't really think that it would be *too* bad for performance (not considering SQL) since asking the engine shouldn't in general be that much more overhead than poking around in an array. Perhaps this is too naive. > -- if a date was edited, then everything gets resorted. > this affects the running balance, so reload everything... In the experimental CBB, the way I handled this was to use a binary search to find the new insertion position, then I just cascaded the changes downward from there. Only windows showing portions of affected accounts *below* the new position for the modified transaction were changed at all. This won't work when we get per-window sort orders, but there you probably just want to notify all the windows about the change(s) and let them decide what new data they need to ask for. I don't know if this would be helpful here, and it was reasonably complex, so I wouldn't suggest trying it unless we're sure it buys us something substantial, but the "notification approach" mentioned above is actually how the CBB implementation worked -- it used a bunch of complicated callbacks with "batch" merging. I mostly present this here in case there's something useful in it. After working on it (and related matters), I began to see why you really want to let database experts handle this sort of stuff -- just hand it over to SQL (or whatever). In the experimental CBB You would start a series of modifications with a begin_modifications() function call, make all the changes you want, then end them with another end_modifications() function call. No ordering changes would be visible from any of the reachable data structures until the end_modifications() call (though you would see value changes). After an end_modifications() the system would analyze all the changes and merge or squash adjacent or redundant ones respectively, and then send everyone who had registered an interest in a particular account a list of events describing exactly what had happened, including pointers to the affected transactions. To do this, it had to keep a list of every modified transaction along with a shadow copy containing the modifications. All the accessor functions knew to look for a shadow copy of a transaction first and use that if it existed, otherwise use the normal transaction. (The transaction data structure had, as a member a pointer to a shadow "clone"). And all the modification "setter" functions knew to always create a clone and modify that if you're in a batched modification section. Aborting a batch would just mean clearing all the clone pointers in the list of modified transactions, and then clearing that list too. FWIW. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:10 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:33 1998) X-From_: chris.ingram@acm.org Tue Sep 8 09:41:38 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id JAA18437 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:41:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.120.14]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29288 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:41:35 -0500 Received: from ravine.binary.net (cingram@ravine.binary.net [12.13.120.8]) by eterna.binary.net (8.8.7-BN-0.05/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07543 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:41:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (cingram@localhost) by ravine.binary.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA22860 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:41:31 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ravine.binary.net: cingram owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:41:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Ingram To: jcollins@gnucash.org Subject: Mailing list archives? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/REPORT; REPORT-TYPE=delivery-status; BOUNDARY="QAA06906.905032700/eterna.binary.net" Content-ID: X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --QAA06906.905032700/eterna.binary.net Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Jeremy, I have tried a couple of times over the past couple of months to send e-mail to webmaster@obsidian.uia.net (this is the address listed on the GNUCash web page), and each time, it bounced. The same thing happens when I e-mail webmaster@gnucash.org. I am able to get e-mail from the list fine. Anyway, you seem to be the one in charge of the web site, mailing list, etc. Do you think that it would be possible to put archives of the mailing list on the web site somewhere? This would be very useful. -- Chris Ingram Chris.Ingram@acm.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:58:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: chris.ingram@acm.org Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 2 days The original message was received at Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:52:27 -0500 (CDT) from cingram@ravine.binary.net [12.13.120.8] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: Operation timed out with obsidian.uia.net. Message could not be delivered for 2 days Message will be deleted from queue --QAA06906.905032700/eterna.binary.net Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Content-Description: Reporting-MTA: dns; eterna.binary.net Arrival-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:52:27 -0500 (CDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; webmaster@obsidian.uia.net Action: failed Status: 4.4.7 Remote-MTA: DNS; obsidian.uia.net Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:58:20 -0500 (CDT) --QAA06906.905032700/eterna.binary.net Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Content-Description: Return-Path: Received: from ravine.binary.net (cingram@ravine.binary.net [12.13.120.8]) by eterna.binary.net (8.8.7-BN-0.05/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29088 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:52:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (cingram@localhost) by ravine.binary.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA16836 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:52:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ravine.binary.net: cingram owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:52:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Ingram X-Sender: cingram@ravine.binary.net To: webmaster@obsidian.uia.net Subject: GNUCash mailing list archives? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have been subscribed to the GNUCash mailing list for a couple of months now, and I wonder, will you make archives available on the web site? Perhaps this would be easy using MHonArc available from http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html. I know that this is what they use on the Debian Linux (www.debian.org) web site to create mailing list archives. -- Chris Ingram Chris.Ingram@acm.org --QAA06906.905032700/eterna.binary.net-- From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:08 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:30 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 08:04:46 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id IAA26057 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:04:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31111 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:04:44 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA26619 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:59:53 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26607 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:59:49 -0500 Received: from toccata.fugue.com ([204.152.188.25]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29697 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:59:49 -0500 Received: from andare.fugue.com (andare.fugue.com [204.152.188.83]) by toccata.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA01103; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andare.fugue.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andare.fugue.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA02793; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809081259.FAA02793@andare.fugue.com> To: linas@linas.org cc: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning), gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Re: Much improved installation coming. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Sep 1998 03:38:45 CDT." <199809080838.DAA10376@shadygrove.linas.org> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 05:59:32 -0700 From: Ted Lemon Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > It may take me a few days at least to digest the patch. I've had trouble > getting an operational guile on my system, primarily because I'm mostly > .rpm based, never used a .deb, and I couldn't find good guile rpm's. I just grabbed and built the latest snapshot, which I think is on ftp.gnome.org. Much easier than messing with RPMs... :') FYA, I made some progress hacking a new ledger display with Gtk yesterday. I haven't actually used the canvas widget yet - I'm trying to get an understanding for the basic widgets first, and I'm not actually convinced that I'll need the canvas widget, since I seem to be winning quite readily with the table widget at the moment. We'll see... _MelloN_ ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:02 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:25 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 03:04:58 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id DAA24616 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:04:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27549 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:03:24 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA07077 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:02:50 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA07073 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:02:49 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27434 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:02:48 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01992; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:59:30 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id DAA10376; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:38:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199809080838.DAA10376@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Much improved installation coming. To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:38:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <87soi3y9xc.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 7, 98 02:55:43 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > > > Both the Mo/Lestif and Gnome/GTK versions of Gnucash work with guile, > and I've cleaned up the startup procedure a *lot*. It may take me a few days at least to digest the patch. I've had trouble getting an operational guile on my system, primarily because I'm mostly .rpm based, never used a .deb, and I couldn't find good guile rpm's. Any clues for us RPM people would be appreciated. I'm thinking that we may need to write a HOWTO get the bits & peices (e.g. guile) to build gnucash. --linas P.S. meanwhile, CVS now has a much reworked register that I think more-or-less supports "auto-expand" of the currently edited transaction. (for the motif version; some serious hacking required to get it to work right on the gtk version ...). Open a register window, and pick "Auto Sngle Line" from the selection menu on the bottom right. Its not perfect, but should mostly work. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:01 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:24 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 02:48:40 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id CAA22305 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:48:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24540 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:48:39 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA06443 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:47:45 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06438 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:47:44 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24475 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:47:44 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01970; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:44:26 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id DAA10316; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:23:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199809080823.DAA10316@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Some questions To: schoenberger@signsoft.com (Dirk Schoenberger) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:23:40 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <19980907213025.cfa29a4e462d11d2923c00a0c944b898.in@mail.sz-online.de> from "Dirk Schoenberger" at Sep 7, 98 08:58:57 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Dirk Schoenberger said: > > 1) Could someone please do a patch the Makefile.in in src/qt with Done > - Why isn't it possible to "include" money into the balances. All I can do > is transfer money between accounts. What if I want to pay in or out money > into the system? I don't understand the question. Currently double entry is *not* forced on the user, so you can have accounts that don't balance. Do you mean "type a number into the balance cell"? > - Why isn't it possible to transfer money between sub-accounts? Hmm, ? All of the subaccounts should be getting listed in the combobox drop down. If you add a subaccount while a register window is open, you may have to close and reopen that register window to update the combobox contents. I've been working on the register window a lot, so occasionally things are broken... sometimes using the combobox to do a transfre may not do what you want/expect. Sometimes the lack of a redraw may leave confusing garbage on the screeen ... I'm almost at the point where things should start getting stable and really start working right in that reg window. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:39:01 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:23 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Tue Sep 8 02:22:39 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id CAA18520 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:22:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19831 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:22:38 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05408 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:21:35 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05403 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:21:34 -0500 From: linas@linas.org Received: from linas.org (linas.org [207.170.121.1]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19725 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:21:34 -0500 Received: from shadygrove.linas.org (shadygrove.linas.org [10.50.50.1]) by linas.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01932; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:18:15 -0500 Received: (from linas@localhost) by shadygrove.linas.org (8.8.4/8.8.7) id CAA10203; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:57:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199809080757.CAA10203@shadygrove.linas.org> Subject: Re: Is the in-progress gnome work checked in? To: rlb@cs.utexas.edu (Rob Browning) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:57:30 -0500 (CDT) Cc: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org In-Reply-To: <873ea5ymy7.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> from "Rob Browning" at Sep 6, 98 04:02:08 pm X-Hahahaha: hehehe Content-Type: text Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 It's been rumoured that Rob Browning said: > I guess this would be the most efficient thing. If I understand > correctly, right now both xacc and the UI have to keep in-memory > representations of *all* of the output only widgets. If we add more > bells and whistles to these (fonts, colors, etc.) that's more and more > duplicated info. Um, yes & no. The e.g. XbaeMatrix has only one XmTextWidget grand total. If it had one per cell, that would be a disaster, since Xt/Motif/Athena/etc/ widgets are quite large. However, Xbae does keep its own internal copy of the text strings displayed in the cells (as well as colors, and one or two other things). This allows it to scroll rapidly, refresh rapidly if resized, un-hidden, etc. My register code also keeps a copy of all the strings; I sort of need to have these to load Xbae, and since I have to make them, I may as well keep them around. I figured that even at 100's of bytes per cell for thousands of cells, this was a quite acceptable memory footprint. > Though I don't know how much work it would be (probably a lot), it > would be nice to re-organize things so that the UI only knows about > the bits that are currently on-screen (+- a border region), and it > just requests more info whenever it gets "exposures" that uncover new > parts of the data-set. It would totally ignore any changes that are > outside it's "window", and it would dump any representations of things > not on-screen when it re-locates. This would scale much better. Well, there are several tradeoffs. doing this would crater scrolling, as this would require going back to the engine and fetching data from there. If, e.g. we ever get an SQL engine, every move of the scroll-bar would cascade a bunch of sql quereies. Yuck. I suspect that most of the poor performance you see results from the frequent reloading of the register. Right now, it takes a very conservative approach: it reloads everything. It does this for two reasons: -- if a date was edited, then everything gets resorted. this affects the running balance, so reload everything... -- if an amount of changed, the running balance thereforward changes. ... As you see, its a rock & a hard place. But I think there are also a few bugs taht are causing more reloads than are actually required. --linas ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:38:56 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:18 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 7 17:10:52 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id RAA07300 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:10:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11795 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:10:25 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28135 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:07:10 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28130 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:07:09 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10624 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:07:08 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-98-9.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.121]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05989; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:07:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zG9RA-0001om-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:07:04 -0500 To: "Dirk Schoenberger" Cc: Subject: Re: Some questions References: <19980907213025.cfa29a4e462d11d2923c00a0c944b898.in@mail.sz-online.de> From: Rob Browning Date: 07 Sep 1998 17:07:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Dirk Schoenberger"'s message of "Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:58:57 +0200" Message-ID: <87hfyjy3ug.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 32 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 "Dirk Schoenberger" writes: > somehow the Gtk version ony segfaults at my system (CVS snapshot) The GTK version is currently broken. Linas is making some substantial mods to the register code, and I haven't kept up. (I didn't want to spend too much time until Linas stabilized things, or until I had time to *really* fix the GTK register.) In any case, I think Ted may be considering working on it. > - Why isn't it possible to "include" money into the balances. All I > can do is transfer money between accounts. What if I want to pay in > or out money into the system? Assuming I've got all this right, you can do what you want, but you just have to think about it a little differently. This confused me at first too, but it's actually a strength of GnuCash rather than a weakness. GnuCash uses strict? double-entry accounting, so *everything* has to be a transfer from one "account" to another. To "pay in or out" (when you're not talking about normal income or expenses which would have normal source and destination accounts) you just use a "adjustments" account. Transfering money to it is "paying out", and transfering money from it is "paying in". > - Why isn't it possible to transfer money between sub-accounts? I haven't actually used sub-accounts yet, but my impression is that sub-account handling (at least from the GUI) needs a little work. Ted was also talking about working on this. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:38:55 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:18 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 7 16:56:59 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id QAA01786 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:56:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07424 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:56:33 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26975 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:53:04 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26971 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:53:03 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05840 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:53:03 -0500 Received: from nevermore (dial-98-9.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.121]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05937 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:53:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rlb by nevermore with local (Exim 2.02 #1 (Debian)) id 0zG9DY-0001o6-00; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:53:00 -0500 To: gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Subject: Finished with this round of hacking... From: Rob Browning Date: 07 Sep 1998 16:52:59 -0500 Message-ID: <87n28by4hw.fsf@nevermore.csres.utexas.edu> Lines: 39 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 OK, I've finished my latest round of hacking. I need to document what I've done a little better, but I'll have to get back to that after I finish some other things. Basically I've revamped some of the build infrastructure so that we have more flexible install options (as I previously mentioned), and I've fixed xacc.in so that it works with both the GTK and Lesstif versions. In addition, both versions have been Guilified (Beguiled?). Now that the startup procedure is much more reasonable, it should be much easier for people to hack on the scheme side. You can basically drop subdirs and scheme files into src/scm and they'll be availble via gnc:load whether you run ./xacc or "make install" and run the installed binary. ./xacc now handles setting up all the options to run out of the source tree. The gnc:*load-path* handling is a little complex, but I think it'll be worth it in terms of flexibility. For example, you can say: (gnc:config-var-value-set! gnc:*load-path* '("." "(/my/lib/scm)" default "/usr/lib/scm")) Any path element that is a string enclosed in parens means add that dir and all of its subdirs. The expansion only happens whenever gnc:*load-path* is modified, not whenever it's used (that would be too expensive). The symbol 'default means add the default load path elements here. You could (though I think you'd rarely want to) also set the load path from the command line like this: xacc --load-path '("." "(/my/lib/scm)" default "/usr/lib/scm"))' The one thing I forgot that'll be coming up shortly is to add "(~/.gnucash/scm)" to the default load path. I'll send my patch to linas shortly. -- Rob Browning PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930 ----- %< -------------------------------------------- >% ------ The GnuCash / X-Accountant Mailing List To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@gnucash.org and put "unsubscribe gnucash-devel your@email.address" in the body From - Sat Sep 26 07:38:53 1998 Received: by mailhost (mbox linux) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sat Sep 26 02:16:15 1998) X-From_: owner-gnucash-devel@gnucash.org Mon Sep 7 15:00:01 1998 X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-980825-0832-PM) with ESMTP id OAA17137 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:59:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from majordomo1.host4u.net (majordomo1.host4u.net [209.150.128.43]) by hydra.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03016 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:59:34 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15147 for gnucash-devel-list.hydra; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:55:47 -0500 Received: from hydra.host4u.net (hydra.host4u.net [209.150.128.35]) by majordomo1.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15142 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:55